Concerned over cuffed and stuffed

[handog]

If you go back and read my previous post I asked for advice on a smaller gun, perhaps a different holster. I get it! Lightningrocks suggested a PM9 in a mini super tuck. Doesn't tell you I have taken some personal responsibility on what happen? I am working on another rig. I just don't want it so deeply concealed that I cannot get to it if and when I need to defend myself.

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. This has been a real learning experience for me. And to the ones who think I'm complaining and don't want to hear it; why are you here?

[03Lightningrocks]

Maybe we should give handdog the benefit of the doubt folks. Obviously the judge agreed it was a bum rap. Anyone who claims they have never accidentally exposed their weapon, even for an instant, does not carry very often. The exception might be folks who carry in a purse or fanny pack. This could happen to any one of us and it really is baloney acting as if the guy who got treated like he lives in Nazi Germany deserved to get rousted by an over zealous cop looking to earn brownie points for advancement.

I have been arrested before and let me tell ya something. Once cops make the commitment, they won't back off no matter how ignorant they are about to look. Those cops would have looked like the keystone gang that they are if after calling in half the darned force they said "oops my bad" and let handdog walk. Give him a break. Those cops should have never made the arrest.

[MojoTexas]

Maybe we should give handdog the benefit of the doubt folks. Obviously the judge agreed it was a bum rap. Anyone who claims they have never accidentally exposed their weapon, even for an instant, does not carry very often. The exception might be folks who carry in a purse or fanny pack. This could happen to any one of us and it really is baloney acting as if the guy who got treated like he lives in Nazi Germany deserved to get rousted by an over zealous cop looking to earn brownie points for advancement.

I have been arrested before and let me tell ya something. Once cops make the commitment, they won't back off no matter how ignorant they are about to look. Those cops would have looked like the keystone gang that they are if after calling in half the darned force they said "oops my bad" and let handdog walk. Give him a break. Those cops should have never made the arrest.

[gigag04]

Maybe we should give handdog the benefit of the doubt folks....

... it really is baloney acting as if the guy who got treated like he lives in Nazi Germany deserved to get rousted by an over zealous cop looking to earn brownie points for advancement.

I have been arrested before and let me tell ya something. Once cops make the commitment, they won't back off no matter how ignorant they are about to look. Those cops would have looked like the keystone gang that they are if after calling in half the darned force they said "oops my bad" and let handdog walk. Give him a break. Those cops should have never made the arrest.

Maybe we should give the whole thing a break....the complaints against the officers haven't gone anywhere - nobody with knowledge of the full situation has decided that a violation against the rights of another has actually taken place. The judge felt like the incident was accidental - that is his decision. Courts decide intentions...I'm not inclined to buy into a line of threads where a significant majority of someone's posts are centered around an incident such as this. Something still doesn't add up to me.

I'm curious if YOU (lightning) feel like you were arrested in error...or else why mention it? Furthermore, I think comparing this to Nazi Germany is hyperbole at it's worst...

I for one am thankful that these types of threads have received some scrutiny from even those outside the LE field. I'm glad that nobody gets a free pass at ripping into an organization or entity without being examined and challenged. This goes for actions of LEOs as well as civilians IMO.

[03Lightningrocks]

Yep...as a matter of fact I was. I understand that you are just a bit predisposed in your view points so I will ignore the hyperbole indictment.

[gigag04]

Yep...as a matter of fact I was. I understand that you are just a bit predisposed in your view points so I will ignore the hyperbole indictment.

Were you given a speedy and fair trial? Were allowed to confront your accusers? Were you held with reasonable bail?

Everybody is predisposed to their own viewpoint...hence the fact that it is THEIRS. And by saying in a public forum that you will ignore something, you are not ingnoring it...I can glean from your writing that you dislike/distrust the police. This is well within your rights. I also read much of what you say to condemn many of their lawful actions. If I am misinterpreting something please advise...I'd rather not be at odds with you, but some of the opinions you offer make it difficult at best to not disagree. I take issue when you comment on things which I feel you don't know. You accuse the unknown officer of making this arrest solely to advance his career. A UCW arrest does not make you a big-time officer....this line of reasoning is simply taking potshots at someone that knows more of the story than you do, and is not here to defend themselves.

The less informed may read your comments regarding police and actually believe them...thus making my job all the more difficult. I will defend your right to post your opinion, but please allow others to challenge it with factual information.

Due to the nature of this obviously heated topic, this thread or whole topic may be deleted/locked, but I feel like it is a good discussion to have. I think there are many myths and misunderstandings between LEOs and average citizens. The more dialogue we can have and gain a better understanding of where each other come from, the better IMO.

[driver8]

I find myself in the same boat. I'm squeeky clean and have never had a run in of any kind but I still find myself to be not really trusting of LEO's even though I've known quite a few and been close friends with two. It might be partly because my dad was a cop a long time ago and he dislikes cops more than anyone I know. I think it's different now, maybe because the pay is up some from the old days. It used to be that if a local cop got in trouble he would just wind up in another part of the state in another town. Usually they left oweing money to local business people. I could be partly wrong on this, it's probably just a reflection of the world. There are a lot of worthless people out there, not all of them are wearing badges but some of them are.

[A-R]

Evidently I am coming across here as sort of dense. If you go back and read my previous post I asked for advice on a smaller gun, perhaps a different holster. I get it! Lightningrocks suggested a PM9 in a mini super tuck. Doesn't tell you I have taken some personal responsibility on what happen? I am working on another rig. I just don't want it so deeply concealed that I cannot get to it if and when I need to defend myself.

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. This has been a real learning experience for me. And to the ones who think I'm complaining and don't want to hear it; why are you here?

handog, I didn't mean in any way to suggest your are dense or demean you in any other way. I'm just a bit troubled that you can't see this situation at all from the perspective of the police. Of course, if I was in your shoes I'm sure I would be clouded by anger and resentment (again, not an indictment of you, speaking for how I might react). But I think a lot of people in both of these threads have made some very good points that are worthy of consideration - on both sides of the issue. What continues to trouble me is you don't seem to give the police any benefit of the doubt at all (not that they gave you any, but that's a different point).

I agree that once you showed your CHL following what you say was an accidental unconceal getting out of your vehicle and what we must assume was another accidental unconceal in the building, the cops likely should've let you go without the arrest. But, you need to realize that at least twice that night you apparently inadvertantly unconcealed your weapon to the point that someone was startled enough to call the police. Regardless of fault, culpability, or intent, your concealed firearm was revealed. That's a problem, regardless of the letter of the law. Sounds like you're taking steps to correct that problem, which is good. And I fully understand why you're bitter about the whole incident and I would be too, but again YOU failed to conceal. The police MUST examine any person revealing a weapon on their person (rightly or wrongly under the 2A RKBA - as it now stands, a "man with gun" demands a swift and certain police response).

Anyway, I hope you take all of this constructive criticism and even some of the more heavy-handed criticism as just more information in a learning process. I truly am sorry this happened to you and the police, IMHO, overstepped their bounds with the arrest, but NOT with the initial armed confrontation. Again I greatly appreciate you sharing all of this with us and hope you will share with us whatever is revealed in your Open Records request.

[handog]

This is what I was wearing the day of the arrest. reckless?

[03Lightningrocks]

Yep...as a matter of fact I was. I understand that you are just a bit predisposed in your view points so I will ignore the hyperbole indictment.

Were you given a speedy and fair trial? Were allowed to confront your accusers? Were you held with reasonable bail?

Everybody is predisposed to their own viewpoint...hence the fact that it is THEIRS. And by saying in a public forum that you will ignore something, you are not ingnoring it...I can glean from your writing that you dislike/distrust the police. This is well within your rights. I also read much of what you say to condemn many of their lawful actions. If I am misinterpreting something please advise...I'd rather not be at odds with you, but some of the opinions you offer make it difficult at best to not disagree. I take issue when you comment on things which I feel you don't know. You accuse the unknown officer of making this arrest solely to advance his career. A UCW arrest does not make you a big-time officer....this line of reasoning is simply taking potshots at someone that knows more of the story than you do, and is not here to defend themselves.

The less informed may read your comments regarding police and actually believe them...thus making my job all the more difficult. I will defend your right to post your opinion, but please allow others to challenge it with factual information.

Due to the nature of this obviously heated topic, this thread or whole topic may be deleted/locked, but I feel like it is a good discussion to have. I think there are many myths and misunderstandings between LEOs and average citizens. The more dialogue we can have and gain a better understanding of where each other come from, the better IMO.

Part of my reason for not taking your opinions to heart has to do with the post you made earlier on indicating an extremely high number of complaints against the department you represent. You are predisposed to thinking the citizen is always wrong. You stated as much in your original post telling of the high number of citizen complaints. That is just wrong in my humble opinion. I can only hope that the department in my community is more sensitive to treating the citizens with a bit more respect than the Round Rock officers showed.

[Keith B]

OK folks, keep it on the OP's original subject and nothing else.

[03Lightningrocks]

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This is what I was wearing the day of the arrest. reckless?

Not reckless at all. I bet many here carry just like that. Personally, I feel like that handgun is sticking up to far and just begging to be exposed. Anything that protrudes out from your body, either while sitting down, bending over... or even while reaching up is a possible snag that could expose your weapon. This is just my opinion of coarse but I feel like full sized weapons are not necessary for concealed carry. Many manufacturers make sub compact weapons of quality and it sure does decrease the risk of getting outed. My son won't even consider carrying anything that requires he change his manner of dress. Drives me nuts but it is what it is. He likes to pocket carry and this really decreases the odds of getting outed. Again... just my opinion but try dropping the weapon down further inside your pants. You need a different holster for this but it might reduce that handle sticking out.

Try not to get ticked off by folks questioning your situation. None of us know you or the facts in what happened. It is pretty rare for someone to get rousted in the manner you did and I think it is human nature to try and make some sense of it. If we can figure out what you might have done to contribute to the situation, it makes the rest of us feel like we can limit our risk of getting the same treatment.

[shortysboy09]

That doesn't look like you were doing anything wrong at all handog......

Only change I can suggest is maybe rolling the position of the holster back a little bit so the grip isn't sticking straight out off your side. I tend to have to do this as well because I carry a pistol that's similar size to what you carry. But, I still think that you were reasonably concealing your weapon and that you were wrongly arrested.

Thanks for sharing your situation with us because we can all learn something through your experiences.

[A-R]

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gun1.jpg

This is what I was wearing the day of the arrest. reckless?

Not reckless at all. I bet many here carry just like that. Personally, I feel like that handgun is sticking up to far and just begging to be exposed. Anything that protrudes out from your body, either while sitting down, bending over... or even while reaching up is a possible snag that could expose your weapon. This is just my opinion of coarse but I feel like full sized weapons are not necessary for concealed carry. Many manufacturers make sub compact weapons of quality and it sure does decrease the risk of getting outed. My son won't even consider carrying anything that requires he change his manner of dress. Drives me nuts but it is what it is. He likes to pocket carry and this really decreases the odds of getting outed. Again... just my opinion but try dropping the weapon down further inside your pants. You need a different holster for this but it might reduce that handle sticking out.

Try not to get ticked off by folks questioning your situation. None of us know you or the facts in what happened. It is pretty rare for someone to get rousted in the manner you did and I think it is human nature to try and make some sense of it. If we can figure out what you might have done to contribute to the situation, it makes the rest of us feel like we can limit our risk of getting the same treatment.

Well written lightningrocks

[A-R]

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This is what I was wearing the day of the arrest. reckless?

Hard to tell if there is any obvious printing in first photo of you sitting in chair. Not that printing is illegal, but we are Monday Morning Quarterbacking your method of carry, and my personal belief is you should try to limit printing as much as possible.

On the third photo which shows the actual gun and holster, I think you would benefit greatly from a forward canted IWB holster with that weapon. That is a large full-size hand grip (at least appears so from the photo - certainly larger than a Kahr or Glock 27 or similar) and it does protrude a good bit. A forward canted holster will angle the rear of the grip up and toward the front of your body, better concealing it pressed against your midsection.

Plenty of good canted holsters out there. But of course, something like a Crossbreed or M-TAC allows a lot of user adjustable forward cant settings - as opposed to a fixed 15% or "FBI" cant on more traditional holsters.

The Glock 36, while is is a "compact" single stack weapon, is very similar in overall size to my Glock 23. When I first bought that gun 12 or so years ago, I tried a straight-cant holster very similar to what you're wearing (same as what I'd used with my old Colt Mustang .380) and found the straight cant very uncomfortable (even in my younger, skinnier days). So my first 6 or so years I carried the G23 in a Galco Summer Comfort/Royal Guard with a "FBI" cant. Never had a problem with printing.

Now carry that gun - and a G27 and a Walther PPS - in Crossbreeds with the front strut set to lowest setting and rear strut set to second highest notch for an even more exagerated cant. The G27 and PPS just disappear. The G23 is also extremely difficult to detect.