Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

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blue
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#16

Post by blue »

-

Consider for a moment, the WORSE places to have a negligent discharge for all of us.

1. A NRA convention.
2. A Gun Show.
3. School.

Be Super Double Cautious - PLEASE!!!
Do it the most cautious right way ONLY,
30.06, or not, be even MORE CAREFUL.

In this case the shows really are putting in all the effort to protect YOU and the RKBA, as well as our future shows, so give them a helping hand, Do it right.

:patriot: :txflag:
Blue

P.S. at most shows you can get your hand stamped to come back in, then go out to your car for something you forgot, OR to stow that real heavy load of ammo, etc. you bought and are tired of carrying around.

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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#17

Post by The Habernatho »

shortysboy09 wrote:
TXMinuteman wrote:Hi All,

I'm planning to visit the gun show at the George R. Brown in Houston this weekend. I'm new to carrying a conceal weapon and am still trying to understand the subtle nuances of when to carry. What's the process/restrictions at a gun show here in Texas. Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Minuteman first of all!!! :tiphat:

Gun shows are usually 30.06 posted and are compliant. I wouldn't try conceal carrying to a gun show under any circumstances. What you will likely have to do is bring your gun in ,unloaded of course, and have an officer zip-tie it so the action won't go into battery
After reading this thread I wasn't sure if it was going to be or not, but it was. The big huge 30.06 sign was right by the entrance doors. I had to make a return trip to my vehicle. :oops:
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ScottDLS
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#18

Post by ScottDLS »

The Habernatho wrote:
shortysboy09 wrote:
TXMinuteman wrote:Hi All,

I'm planning to visit the gun show at the George R. Brown in Houston this weekend. I'm new to carrying a conceal weapon and am still trying to understand the subtle nuances of when to carry. What's the process/restrictions at a gun show here in Texas. Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Minuteman first of all!!! :tiphat:

Gun shows are usually 30.06 posted and are compliant. I wouldn't try conceal carrying to a gun show under any circumstances. What you will likely have to do is bring your gun in ,unloaded of course, and have an officer zip-tie it so the action won't go into battery
After reading this thread I wasn't sure if it was going to be or not, but it was. The big huge 30.06 sign was right by the entrance doors. I had to make a return trip to my vehicle. :oops:
George R. Brown Center is owned by the City of Houston, so the 30.06 notice was not valid. Now if they were frisking people or metal detectors, I guess I'd probably avoid the confrontation. This situation seems like it's getting more and more common with cities posting invalid 30.06 notices. I thought the Houston City Hall tried to ban CHL's and ultimately couldn't. Then they started having them wear red visitor badges denoting someone carrying.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#19

Post by rm9792 »

Someone once posted a scan of the lease agreement for GRB and it specifically said that any lessee could not ban CHL. If that is still the case then the gun show posting is invalid 3 different ways.
Last edited by rm9792 on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#20

Post by snorri »

It sounds like gun shows in Houston are getting as bad as Austin.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#21

Post by Dragonfighter »

I don't know that there is much in the way of real disagreement on the improper nature of the postings. The only thing I can see changing it in practicality is some kind of legal challenge; either a test case by deliberate "trespass" or a suit filed when someone gets robbed going to and from their car (there's bucks and guns around those places).

I suppose there is a legislator that might stiffen his/her spine and start a movement towards clarifying these laws so this kind of thing stops. But I am not holding my breath.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#22

Post by Mike1951 »

I have always opined that posting is a requirement of the promoter's insurance.

This was semi-confirmed when Jim Dark, former executive director of the TSRA, stated that they were required to post their annual gun show in Mesquite or forgo insurance on the event.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#23

Post by ScottDLS »

Mike1951 wrote:I have always opined that posting is a requirement of the promoter's insurance.

This was semi-confirmed when Jim Dark, former executive director of the TSRA, stated that they were required to post their annual gun show in Mesquite or forgo insurance on the event.
In the case of George R. Brown Center, sounds like from the post above that the lease specifically prohibits them from barring CHL. So the insurance requirements would be in conflict with the lease. Even when they do post, it's a government owned property so the sign isn't legally effective. Wonder if the State Fair's insurance company wants them to post?
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#24

Post by MechAg94 »

The guns shows around Houston have always been posted 30.06, or as long as I have been back in the area.

I don't disagree with y'all and I would say you are probably right, but just keep in mind that if you get caught, the local cops there are not going to listen to your legal explanation. If you are willing to deal with that, fine by me.

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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#25

Post by chabouk »

Insurance companies can require a valid 30.06 notice if they wish. When the venue is owned or leased by the government, that notice is invalid. Informed CHLs will know the difference; those who are uninformed will take the long hike back to their car (and then come here and post a question about it. :mrgreen: )
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#26

Post by Kythas »

I was at the Big Town gun show this past weekend and was a bit perplexed about their 30.06 sign and the appropriate behavior.

If the building is not government owned (I don't think the building where the Big Town gun show is) and they have a 30.06 sign, I obviously have to have my weapon zip tied if I carry it in. After doing so, however, can I place my gun back in its holster and re-cover or do I have to proceed with it exposed?

If I re-cover the weapon, am I then in violation of 30.06? However, if I proceed with it uncovered, am I then in violation of 46.02 Intentional Failure to Conceal?

This seems to be one of the "darned if I do and darned if I don't" scenarios.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#27

Post by Dragonfighter »

Kythas wrote:I was at the Big Town gun show this past weekend and was a bit perplexed about their 30.06 sign and the appropriate behavior.

If the building is not government owned (I don't think the building where the Big Town gun show is) and they have a 30.06 sign, I obviously have to have my weapon zip tied if I carry it in. After doing so, however, can I place my gun back in its holster and re-cover or do I have to proceed with it exposed?

If I re-cover the weapon, am I then in violation of 30.06? However, if I proceed with it uncovered, am I then in violation of 46.02 Intentional Failure to Conceal?

This seems to be one of the "darned if I do and darned if I don't" scenarios.
You can't be prosecuted without someone bringing charges. It seems that the attitude is okay with a weapon that has been ziptied and then what is the real difference between a gun in a holster under the shirt and one in a bag or case.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#28

Post by Mack »

The last time I went to the Big Town gun show I unloaded in the car and had my pistol in the holster and tucked. I walked up the to officer, untucked, drew, pulled the slide open and handed it to him. He zipped tied it and I put it back in my holster and tucked my shirt in. Not a word was said about me doing that.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#29

Post by Kythas »

Mack wrote:The last time I went to the Big Town gun show I unloaded in the car and had my pistol in the holster and tucked. I walked up the to officer, untucked, drew, pulled the slide open and handed it to him. He zipped tied it and I put it back in my holster and tucked my shirt in. Not a word was said about me doing that.
Which is what I did, but I was thinking about it today. 30.06 makes no provision for whether the weapon is loaded or unloaded, zip tied or not zip tied. It simply states that possession of a concealed handgun in the building is prohibited by someone with a CHL.

Open carry of a handgun is only allowed in your home or place of business, neither of which a gun show would be, and it's also been pointed out on this board that nobody can give a person permission to break the law. For example, if I owned a restaurant I couldn't allow customers to open carry in my restaurant, though I could allow my employees to do so.

I realize that nobody at a gun show (or a gun range for that matter) really cares if you're open carrying a handgun (I saw plenty of people doing that this weekend) nor if you have your gun concealed, as long as it's been properly zip tied at the door. However, either way is a technical violation of the law in my opinion and if someone really wanted to, they could make it stick legally, such as Austin which from what I understand is kind of gun show unfriendly. If Austin PD wanted to arrest you for concealing a handgun while in a properly posted gun show, even if zip tied and unloaded, I think that could stick. If you were carrying openly, then I think they could make an intentional failure to conceal charge stick, also.

Of course, I am not a lawyer. Maybe an instructor or someone who's an actual lawyer might chime in.
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Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry

#30

Post by MechAg94 »

Mack wrote:The last time I went to the Big Town gun show I unloaded in the car and had my pistol in the holster and tucked. I walked up the to officer, untucked, drew, pulled the slide open and handed it to him. He zipped tied it and I put it back in my holster and tucked my shirt in. Not a word was said about me doing that.
I see guys carrying zip-tied guns in holsters quite a bit. The only way I think you might have had a problem is if you tried to unload it right there in front of the officer. :)
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