Life In Danger Question

[suthdj]

Or he gets up to the next car from you and you say halt with your hand on your weapon and he gives you a confused look and gets in the car calling his wife telling her about the crazy guy in the parking garage.

[marksiwel]

Or he gets up to the next car from you and you say halt with your hand on your weapon and he gives you a confused look and gets in the car calling his wife telling her about the crazy guy in the parking garage.

Yep. Or worse
Some Crazy guy tried to mug me in the parking lot told me to stop where I was and then pulled a gun on me. I called the cops and they took him away, thank god.

[The Annoyed Man]

I would hope that a CHL holder would understand the danger/stupidity of simply walking straight up to someone without any communication, especially when dressed like a thug (how many CHL holders dress like that anyway?).

Hey, I'm totally OG gangsta, as in "Original!" Floppy boonie cap, fishing vest, faded brownish green work jacket, jeans, EEE width black shoes, glasses, white hair, and a Col. Sanders mustache and beard... ...a terrifying image to some, but to most, I look like a disreputable old reprobate. If I walk up to you, you'd be right to be alarmed.

[Dragonfighter]

... ...a terrifying image to some, but to most, I look like a disreputable old reprobate. If I walk up to you, you'd be right to be alarmed.

Or just annoyed.

[marksiwel]

I would hope that a CHL holder would understand the danger/stupidity of simply walking straight up to someone without any communication, especially when dressed like a thug (how many CHL holders dress like that anyway?).

Hey, I'm totally OG gangsta, as in "Original!" Floppy boonie cap, fishing vest, faded brownish green work jacket, jeans, EEE width black shoes, glasses, white hair, and a Col. Sanders mustache and beard... ...a terrifying image to some, but to most, I look like a disreputable old reprobate. If I walk up to you, you'd be right to be alarmed.

grand pa?

[Beiruty]

This thread start good and ended ridiculously silly. Some of us needs discipline. the OP has a valid question/scenario. Stop being like just kids.

[Dragonfighter]

This thread start good and ended ridiculously silly.

Okay, gotta go with you on this. But, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, I reread the thread and it seems the question was answered fairly well. A little humor is good for morale and relations IMHO. So, if there is something else you would like to see addressed in this thread, seriously, by all means let us continue. I get in enough trouble without being told I need to be disciplined as well, agreed?

[USA1]

I would like to add that in the event of the scenario described in the OP that you should also heighten your situational awareness as to what's going on behind and around you. There may be an accomplice that you haven't identified yet.

Also, if you were to draw your weapon in self defense, whether or not you discharge it, you should call 911 immediately
when it is safe to do so. You don't want to be put into a situation where someone else calls first and makes it look like
you're the aggressor.

The above comments are only my opinions.

[marksiwel]

I would like to add that in the event of the scenario described in the OP that you should also heighten your situational awareness as to what's going on behind and around you. There may be an accomplice that you haven't identified yet.

Also, if you were to draw your weapon in self defense, whether or not you discharge it, you should call 911 immediately
when it is safe to do so. You don't want to be put into a situation where someone else calls first and makes it look like
you're the aggressor.

The above comments are only my opinions.

Yeah, anytime you take your gun out, your next move when safe is to call 911.

Because theres nothing to stop the guy from calling 911 to get YOU in trouble

[bdickens]

I'm sure this has been discussed but I've been searching here for a couple hours and could not find what I was looking for.

Lets say that I'm walking to my car. The parking lot is pretty empty and I see a gangster looking thug about 20' away walking directly at me. He has that "up to no good" look and is obviously fixated on me but no signs of a weapon. He could be coming out to help me load my groceries- or to rob me. What do you do? No real time for any real verbal communication. Do you just wait & see? Do you put you hand on your cc weapon but leave it holstered? Do you draw to a low safe position? What would be legal in that circumstance?

Lets say he walks up and, as expected, demands your wallet, keys, & your watch. No sign of a weapon yet. What do you do?

Just trying to get a feel of what "life in danger" really looks like in a real world situation.

Being a "gangster looking thug" is not a crime, nor is it an indication of evil intent. Neither is walking towards someone.

Food for thought.

[mark4140]

Thanks for all of the replies! I really posted this because I was coming out of WalMart with my son (4yrs) and he decided to lay down in the grass median in the parking lot by my truck (why? because he is 4 I guess... I'm not really sure :) ). Anyway I was trying to pick him up but he was goofing around & I looked up and a total thug (pick in his hair, baggy pants, gangsta' walk, evil look in his eyes) was right there walking by me. He passed on by but kept looking at me suspiciously. It got me thinking what I would do if he came right at me (and I had my CHL... which BTW just switched to processing today ).

When I'm with my kids I get very protective and it is very hard to keep track of them and everything that is going on around you- especially in a parking lot. I know that I can't just draw on a guy because he looks mean but I really just wondered at what point he crosses the line.

I think, after all of your posts & finding some other posts here, my plan would be holding out a halt hand and a "Whoa Buddy!... what's going on?". Hopefully he would stop. If he continued to come closer I would back up & keep a distance if possible (probably not if my kids were standing there though) and then hand-on-gun if he got in our 10' space. Hopefully this never happens but it is nice to have a plan.

[mark4140]

Being a "gangster looking thug" is not a crime, nor is it an indication of evil intent. Neither is walking towards someone. Food for thought.

I completely agree. That is why I said he could be coming out to help me load my groceries. I was not going to gun him down right there or anything. I just wondered at what point was it reasonable to think he was a threat. I think I pretty much have a good idea now though.

[joe817]

Being a "gangster looking thug" is not a crime, nor is it an indication of evil intent. Neither is walking towards someone. Food for thought.

I completely agree. That is why I said he could be coming out to help me load my groceries. I was not going to gun him down right there or anything. I just wondered at what point was it reasonable to think he was a threat. I think I pretty much have a good idea now though.

I agree as well. But for me it certainly justifies going to condition orange, as per the following color chart:

"1. WHITE - This is a condition of complete relaxation. If we are attacked in Condition White we will die unless our opponent is hopelessly inept.
2. YELLOW - This is a condition of relaxed alertness and is the minimal condition we should be in if armed. It is not stressful and could be maintained forever.
3. ORANGE - This is a heightened condition where some specific individual or object has attracted our attention and something about them causes concern. They may have something in their hand or are just acting out of sync with others present.
4. RED - The concern has turned into a genuine threat and we need to respond accordingly. If we are armed we need to respond with deadly force if we have a clear shot.
5. BLACK - The only appropriate moral response is fatal force. You are walking through your local mall and someone produces a gun and starts shooting into the crowd. We are far beyond the verbal compliance stage of life and only fatal force will resolve this situation before innocents are murdered."

I got the color chart from someone's post a few weeks/months ago(I dunno; I plead the grandpa defense. I've slept since then. ) It's a good source of reading and reflecting.

If you have time, please read the commentaries. Well written & thought out.

[Dragonfighter]

It is my belief a lot of people die denying their instincts saying, "this is not happening" or "surely he doesn't want to hurt me/appearnnces don't matter". That is not to say draw at a moments provocation but be aware of thrir motions, collaborators and keep a defensive distance...if suspicion turns to aggression then act accordingly.

[hirundo82]

Being a "gangster looking thug" is not a crime, nor is it an indication of evil intent. Neither is walking towards someone. Food for thought.

I completely agree. That is why I said he could be coming out to help me load my groceries. I was not going to gun him down right there or anything. I just wondered at what point was it reasonable to think he was a threat. I think I pretty much have a good idea now though.

I agree as well. But for me it certainly justifies going to condition orange, as per the following color chart:

"1. WHITE - This is a condition of complete relaxation. If we are attacked in Condition White we will die unless our opponent is hopelessly inept.
2. YELLOW - This is a condition of relaxed alertness and is the minimal condition we should be in if armed. It is not stressful and could be maintained forever.
3. ORANGE - This is a heightened condition where some specific individual or object has attracted our attention and something about them causes concern. They may have something in their hand or are just acting out of sync with others present.
4. RED - The concern has turned into a genuine threat and we need to respond accordingly. If we are armed we need to respond with deadly force if we have a clear shot.
5. BLACK - The only appropriate moral response is fatal force. You are walking through your local mall and someone produces a gun and starts shooting into the crowd. We are far beyond the verbal compliance stage of life and only fatal force will resolve this situation before innocents are murdered."

I got the color chart from someone's post a few weeks/months ago(I dunno; I plead the grandpa defense. I've slept since then. ) It's a good source of reading and reflecting.

If you have time, please read the commentaries. Well written & thought out.

That is the color code system as introduced by Col. Jeff Cooper (founder of Gunsite).

You can read more about it here or here.