Open Carry

[mr surveyor]

Keith B and Mr. Cotton have made the case very well for the main reason to drop the open carry issue. In the past 5 years or so, I have only seen 3 (three) legitimate 30.06 postings in my area of Northeast Texas.... two hospitals and one bank, and one of the hospitals has "questionable" signage. If open carry were to become legal, does anyone actually believe that a massive number of business owners would not suddenly become aware of their right to post? Currrently, most business owners either aren't truly aware of the 30.06 posting option available to them, they never were aware of a "need" to post, were just apathetic, or in some cases (I know one restruamt owner that posts "CHL's Welcome") are very aware of CHL's and feel very comfortable with their presence. Once a few open carried handguns start showing up on the properties of many of these businesses, the owners will actively seek a remedy, and WILL post their properties. That is a fact! In that case, one man's freedom to exercise his right (open carry) will most certainly limit everyone's freedom to exercise their rights to carry (concealed).


surv

[PappaGun]

..Once a few open carried handguns start showing up on the properties of many of these businesses, the owners will actively seek a remedy, and WILL post their properties. That is a fact!...


surv

I don't agree.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily disagree.
But this has not been my experience.
In my last State of residence, an OC State, there were not many posted locations.
And in my travels to other OC States, I don't see any more posted locations than I do in Texas.

[cbr600]

Goodness gracious! I suppose we had best hurry and make open carry of rifles illegal as well, and prohibit concealed carry of rifles without a $140 license.

[Greybeard]

Quote: "Perhaps with more open carry, more stores would learn to post the correct statutory proscription on "carry". "

THAT is the primary objection that many of us have with Open Carry. Only, I do not believe it would be just "perhaps". The media attention drawn to the subject and just a few people walking around with exposed handguns in metropolitian areas would cause so many people to have such panic attacks that THOUSANDS of businesses that currently do not post any signage, much less proper 30.06 signage, WOULD get "educated" and do so!

Lotsa talk about beatin a dead horse. Some folks just do not seem to understand that it is often best to leave certain sleeping dogs alone!

[shootthesheet]

Assuming the Second Amendment is incorporated against the states in MacDonald shortly, and assuming SCOTUS elects to exercise strict scrutiny for judicial review, the Texas prohibition on open carry would have to serve some narrow and compelling public interest to survive a challenge. Can anybody think of one?

The prohibition on "carry", licensed or otherwise, in DC seems to have survived after Heller pretty well. I'm not so sure why potential incorporation vis-a-vis MacDonald would affect open carry in Texas. In Heller SCOTUS seemed to go out of their way to leave carry restrictions in place.

That is because D.C. is not a state and "Heller" was taken up because D.C. had the most extreme gun ban in my opinion. Do away with it and other cities don't want the fight. Carry was not even addressed and certainly incorporation of the states was not either.

"McDonald" will decide what degree a state can restrict this proven fundamental civil right. Even a 5-4 decision in our favor could completely extinguish every gun law in every state. It will not but it will open the door for knocking unconstitutional laws, such as our States claim that they have a power to control the "wearing of arms", out it seems. The Second Amendment gives no room for that infringement so the State will eventually have to change the Texas Constitution to show that fact. I have not heard anyone say we cannot restrict certain criminals from owning guns though that is my personal belief. If a person cannot be trusted with a gun they cannot be trusted with a knife or car or anything that can be used as a weapon. That is another issue. What we have to keep in mind is that the SCOTUS will likely narrowly rule on this case just as they did the D.C. case. They do that so the finer points can be worked out later. "Later" means it will take may take some time for Texas to realize the U.S. Constitution is in fact the Supreme Law of the Land and not their own opinions. That is the way I understand it anyway.

[Owens]

Charles,

As much as I one day would not mind seeing OC as an option, I agree there are some things I rather see first. Campus carry...almost had it. Parking lots...almost had it. Hit em again. First.

[tomc]

Most states that allow open carry have always had legal open carry. Texas, since the late 1800s has outlawed open carry. I believe that passing open carry here would not be possible until it grows to higher visibility in open carry states.

I would gladly welcome open carry here in Texas because many times in rural west Texas while hunting, I would have loved to be able to open carry when I had to go into town for supplies rather than having to disarm when leaving the hunting lease and re-arming when getting back. I believe no one would have shown any negative reaction when seeing open carry in such surroundings. In populated cities and counties, it would be a much different situation. Maybe the first effort in allowing open carry should be restricted to less populated rural counties that specifically approve it, then expand it to everywhere.

But, I believe it will be a long time coming and only after certain areas of our world freeze over.

[giants]

I oc about 50% of the time in Pa.Hardly anyone even notices.A large oc movement is going on in Pa.right now.Once in a while the police see us & usually nothing happens.Only a few confrontations...I am visiting here in Houston for the last few days & have been c c by your state law.I have seen signs in restaurants & hotels stating that unlicensed carry will result in a 10 year prison term & a fine.Never have seen signs like these in other states I am licensed to carry in.You have a great city & would visit again.If oc was legal here it would catch on.Everybody has their own way to carry & they should have the right to make their own choice.Look at the web site pafoa.org from Pa.

[srothstein]

Giants,

Welcome to Texas, we always appreciate polite and friendly visitors. But those signs you saw about unlicensed carry are actually mandated by state law. They are a warning to someone who is already breaking the law by illegally carrying a weapon that it will go from being a misdemeanor to a felony if they enter on those premises because of the alcohol sales. They predate the passing of our CHL laws by many years (though back then it just said unlawfully carrying instead of the unlicensed carrying).

There are a lot of arguments both for and against open carry. I would like to see the law passed, but I think that there will be a small backlash along the lines of what Charles pointed out. Some stores would ban that do not currently ban. I do not think it would be as many as some people think, but I have to admit that some would. Proof of both sides of this made national news rather recently. One of the coffee houses in California (IIRC) did ban guns when the OC movement tried to hold a meeting there. But another national chain, Starbuck's, refused to ban guns if they were legally carried, even when asked (ok, pressured) to by the national anti-gun crowd.

Until recently, I had openly carried in Texas for many years. Of course, the uniform made it less likely people would be scared by this. Even the badge worn on the belt when I was in plainclothes seemed to avoid the fear. But I did see some people who were nervous about a man with a gun until they saw the badge. What is more important as an indicator of general society's view on guns is the old traditional gun rack in the truck window. When I first got to Texas, these were so common that it seemed like these were sold by the dealers as a factory option. It is still legal to carry a long gun openly in Texas, without a license. How many gun racks do you see in trucks these days?

I support open carry and would love to see it passed, but I don't honestly expect any politicians to work towards it. If the public is upset at rifles in truck windows, it is not politically feasible for the politician to work on open carry of handguns.

[carlson1]

I would rather have all restrictions removed (carry the same place as LEO) than to have Open Carry. I still favor open carry I just would like the restrictions removed first.

[s197winstang]

Has anyone attempted a compromise that would help prevent the "round rock incident" but come short of open carry?

[davidtx]

[SNIP]
When I first got to Texas, these were so common that it seemed like these were sold by the dealers as a factory option. It is still legal to carry a long gun openly in Texas, without a license. How many gun racks do you see in trucks these days?

I support open carry and would love to see it passed, but I don't honestly expect any politicians to work towards it. If the public is upset at rifles in truck windows, it is not politically feasible for the politician to work on open carry of handguns.

What happened here? When I left Texas for NH in the late 80's, there were lots of gun racks in trucks. Eighteen years later, I return and no gun racks at all.

[mgood]

[SNIP]
When I first got to Texas, these were so common that it seemed like these were sold by the dealers as a factory option. It is still legal to carry a long gun openly in Texas, without a license. How many gun racks do you see in trucks these days?

I support open carry and would love to see it passed, but I don't honestly expect any politicians to work towards it. If the public is upset at rifles in truck windows, it is not politically feasible for the politician to work on open carry of handguns.

What happened here? When I left Texas for NH in the late 80's, there were lots of gun racks in trucks. Eighteen years later, I return and no gun racks at all.

I think it had more to do with fear of the guns being stolen than anything else.

[frazzled]

Even if Texas had open carry, I would still carry concealed.

Even if Texas allowed catsup on burgers, I would still use mustard.

Pah! Texas is a "right to condiment" state. You can take our assorted condiments, when you pry them from our cold, dead (and mustard stained) hands!

[Keith B]

..Once a few open carried handguns start showing up on the properties of many of these businesses, the owners will actively seek a remedy, and WILL post their properties. That is a fact!...


surv

I don't agree.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily disagree.
But this has not been my experience.
In my last State of residence, an OC State, there were not many posted locations.
And in my travels to other OC States, I don't see any more posted locations than I do in Texas.

A couple of questions:
1. Did your state allow cities to put ordinances in place to ban open carry? (City preemption of state law)
2. How many times did you see people actually open carrying in town and in businesses like Wal-Mart and Denny's?

The reason I ask is I lived for 38 years in an open carry state. I can remember 2 times seeing someone actually open carrying. One I had to ask to leave the store when they called the police about a man with a gun walking around their grocery store and I responded (was a LEO then.) The other was when we had a Dallas Days festival and we had 2 or 3 folks with real single action cowboy style pistols on tier belts. However, I do know that they were not loaded as I asked them.

And while you don't see postings, I believe it is because people DON'T regularly open carry in towns, even where it is legal in these states. HOWEVER, if it were to pass in Texas, because it would be something new and unique, everyone and their dog would decide 'Hey, I can strap on my six-shooter and wander around Home Depot'. This would bring so much attention to the new law that businesses would THEN start posting. Now, in rural areas, it might be different, but your urban areas just wouldn't stand for this happing and 30.06 signs would pop up faster than a prairie dog pops in and out out of his hole.