Open Carry

[PappaGun]

Yep, this has been beaten around before.

But since you asked...

I lived in New Mexico for 27 years and saw one person OC sometime around 19 and 84.
The I saw another person OC about 19 and 99.

That's it.

Unless you count OC in a car. You can have it on the dash, in your lap or hangin from your neck. It's all good.

[ScottDLS]

Assuming the Second Amendment is incorporated against the states in MacDonald shortly, and assuming SCOTUS elects to exercise strict scrutiny for judicial review, the Texas prohibition on open carry would have to serve some narrow and compelling public interest to survive a challenge. Can anybody think of one?

The prohibition on "carry", licensed or otherwise, in DC seems to have survived after Heller pretty well. I'm not so sure why potential incorporation vis-a-vis MacDonald would affect open carry in Texas. In Heller SCOTUS seemed to go out of their way to leave carry restrictions in place.

[rdcrags]

I have open carried in Colorado every day for 6 months each year since 2005. In Wilderness Areas and at times on the bus to and from the trailheads. No problems. Some questions. Denver outlaws it, but the many attached cities do not care. Neither do the cities and towns not attached to Denver. Although it is legal to open carry, I carry concealed in the towns and cities for a couple of reasons: (1) I don't want to be the first target. (2) If someone panics when they see a holstered gun, you can be cited for disturbing the peace. I don't worry about that out in the woods, though.

rdcrags

TX CHL 1997
CO CHP 2005

[ScottDLS]

Open carry has been on the forum numerous times. You will find as many against it as for it.

Bottom line, the chance of open carry ever passing in Texas is slim to none, and slim left town. Some of the open carry supporters last session tried shoving their agendas down the legislators throats and alienated the ones that they might have had a chance getting the legislation introduced with. I think finding anyone to support introduction of legislation in future sessions is now going to be extremely difficult. Most will not touch with a 10 foot pole now.

Besides the hurdles of just getting someone to introduce it, the fact that it is illegal now will make it that much more difficult to get repealed. The states that currently have open carry have always had it, so it never had to be reversed. If by some chance it did get overturned, there would be a LOT of restrictions on it. Most open carry states allow cities to preempt the state law and not allow open carry in their town. That would mean you might be able to open carry in Richardson, but when you crossed the city limit line into Plano, you would suddenly be illegal. Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry. Since it would be such a widely publicized thing in the media, you would see businesses throwing up signs right and left. This would then ban ALL carry in the stores.

So, while it might sound like a great deal to get open carry, think about the ramifications and fallout that would come from it. It would NOT be pretty.

Keith - I have to respectfully disagree with you on few points.
-----
Before that, let me say that I believe that Texas CHL Forum is primarily aimed at "Concealed" Carry and if I understand correctly, Mr. Charles L. Cotton has mainly focused his efforts on improving "concealed" carry laws in Texas. I respect that, and frankly few people, rise to his level of advocacy and support for "carry" rights. I'll support Chas., TSRA, NRA, etc. any day! If we don't want to have open carry discussion here, I can live with that.
-----

Most open carry states allow cities to preempt the state law and not allow open carry in their town. That would mean you might be able to open carry in Richardson, but when you crossed the city limit line into Plano, you would suddenly be illegal. Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry.

I dispute this. Most states have statewide pre-emption. Texas does, though OC is (generally) illegal here. Why would it change if Texas allowed licensed (or unlicensed) OC? New Hampshire has statewide pre-emption. Pennsylvania does, although some question of City of Philadelphia. New York State does, with the specific statutory exception of the 5 boroughs of NYC. California has statewide preemption. If you're lucky enough to get a carry license there, even San Fransisco can't bust you. Anyway, my point is that I don't think OC risks changing our statewide preemption.

As a side note... this why I don't agree with people that say we should have "Vermont style" carry. In Vermont there is no statewide pre-emption, though there is no state law against carrying concealed or open. I understand few cities have passed ordinances against carry, but they could. Also since no state carry law, no NICS check exemption and no reciprocity. I like Alaska style carry. They have a CHL, but no state law against unlicensed carry. And I believe...statewide preemption for licensees....

Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry. Since it would be such a widely publicized thing in the media, you would see businesses throwing up signs right and left. This would then ban ALL carry in the stores.

Who would make stores post more 30.06? The cities? See statewide preemption. Perhaps with more open carry, more stores would learn to post the correct statutory proscription on "carry". Let's just assume that legislature extended 30.06 as-is to open carry. But frankly I doubt it. We've had 30.06 since 1997 and I can count on my hands the number of correctly posted places I've seen. What I DO think more stores would do is verbally(ok, ORALLY!) notify OC'ers to leave. Perfect opportunity to exercise your right to conceal and carry (before notification).

[Mando'a]

I have been to Arizona for three weeks on three separate occasions in the past six months and have yet to see anyone open carry.

If we get open carry in Texas, I probably would not participate. However, it would be nice to have it so I would not worry about my weapon being accidentally exposed while carrying concealed. That is the most important benefit to me. I believe, like many others, the element of surprise of having a concealed weapon gives a major benefit to me in the case of an altercation that requires the use of deadly force.

[Keith B]

Open carry has been on the forum numerous times. You will find as many against it as for it.

Bottom line, the chance of open carry ever passing in Texas is slim to none, and slim left town. Some of the open carry supporters last session tried shoving their agendas down the legislators throats and alienated the ones that they might have had a chance getting the legislation introduced with. I think finding anyone to support introduction of legislation in future sessions is now going to be extremely difficult. Most will not touch with a 10 foot pole now.

Besides the hurdles of just getting someone to introduce it, the fact that it is illegal now will make it that much more difficult to get repealed. The states that currently have open carry have always had it, so it never had to be reversed. If by some chance it did get overturned, there would be a LOT of restrictions on it. Most open carry states allow cities to preempt the state law and not allow open carry in their town. That would mean you might be able to open carry in Richardson, but when you crossed the city limit line into Plano, you would suddenly be illegal. Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry. Since it would be such a widely publicized thing in the media, you would see businesses throwing up signs right and left. This would then ban ALL carry in the stores.

So, while it might sound like a great deal to get open carry, think about the ramifications and fallout that would come from it. It would NOT be pretty.

Keith - I have to respectfully disagree with you on few points.
-----
Before that, let me say that I believe that Texas CHL Forum is primarily aimed at "Concealed" Carry and if I understand correctly, Mr. Charles L. Cotton has mainly focused his efforts on improving "concealed" carry laws in Texas. I respect that, and frankly few people, rise to his level of advocacy and support for "carry" rights. I'll support Chas., TSRA, NRA, etc. any day! If we don't want to have open carry discussion here, I can live with that.

-----
There is no problem having another open carry discussion, it is just that there have been numerous ones over the years and they still all end up with folks disagreeing and no new information being passed.

Most open carry states allow cities to preempt the state law and not allow open carry in their town. That would mean you might be able to open carry in Richardson, but when you crossed the city limit line into Plano, you would suddenly be illegal. Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry.

I dispute this. Most states have statewide pre-emption. Texas does, though OC is (generally) illegal here. Why would it change if Texas allowed licensed (or unlicensed) OC? New Hampshire has statewide pre-emption. Pennsylvania does, although some question of City of Philadelphia. New York State does, with the specific statutory exception of the 5 boroughs of NYC. California has statewide preemption. If you're lucky enough to get a carry license there, even San Fransisco can't bust you. Anyway, my point is that I don't think OC risks changing our statewide preemption.

As a side note... this why I don't agree with people that say we should have "Vermont style" carry. In Vermont there is no statewide pre-emption, though there is no state law against carrying concealed or open. I understand few cities have passed ordinances against carry, but they could. Also since no state carry law, no NICS check exemption and no reciprocity. I like Alaska style carry. They have a CHL, but no state law against unlicensed carry. And I believe...statewide preemption for licensees....

You will see that open carry would be a VERY hot topic, and while the 'out of sight, out of mind' plays into concealed carry, this would draw a LOT of attention from the cities. We have seen how much the legislature throws out compromise on things to get it passed, and I will bet you a dollar to a donut that they would allow the cities to preempt state law if open carry was to get passed.

Also, they would more than likely make businesses post 30.06 signs to prohibit open carry. Since it would be such a widely publicized thing in the media, you would see businesses throwing up signs right and left. This would then ban ALL carry in the stores.

Who would make stores post more 30.06? The cities? See statewide preemption. Perhaps with more open carry, more stores would learn to post the correct statutory proscription on "carry". Let's just assume that legislature extended 30.06 as-is to open carry. But frankly I doubt it. We've had 30.06 since 1997 and I can count on my hands the number of correctly posted places I've seen. What I DO think more stores would do is verbally(ok, ORALLY!) notify OC'ers to leave. Perfect opportunity to exercise your right to conceal and carry (before notification).

I really think the added media attention and high profile publicity that a bill to pass open carry would get will cause the owners who today have the 'out of sight, out of mind' view today to start posting in a manner to keep guns out of their businesses. I really think the amount of compromise that would be thrown in for open carry to pass (city preemption, 30.06 extended to open carry, etc.) might get the bill passed, but in turn would potentially hurt concealed carry options.

So, we will just have to agree to disagree since neither of us is Nostradamus or fortune tellers and can't accurately predict the future.

[casingpoint]

all end up with folks disagreeing and no new information being passed

You tawkin' 'bout open carry, or the U.S. Congress and health care?

[Conagher]

I am not sure I comprehend the “beating a dead horse” idiom as it relates to this subject – the definition being a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile. Though you may argue the futility of the discussion it is certainly not foreclosed or otherwise resolved.

Similar to past predictions from opposing sides on other issues, both horrific and benign, I suspect the OC issue will end up being much ado about nothing once it becomes legal in Texas. After the fact it will hardly be worth the effort of revisiting the augments to assess who’s prediction was more accurate. Some will benefit, and others may experience little or no impact; but all should rejoice anytime freedom is restored.

Have a nice day.

[marksiwel]

I am not sure I comprehend the “beating a dead horse” idiom as it relates to this subject – the definition being a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile. Though you may argue the futility of the discussion it is certainly not foreclosed or otherwise resolved.

Similar to past predictions from opposing sides on other issues, both horrific and benign, I suspect the OC issue will end up being much ado about nothing once it becomes legal in Texas. After the fact it will hardly be worth the effort of revisiting the augments to assess who’s prediction was more accurate. Some will benefit, and others may experience little or no impact; but all should rejoice anytime freedom is restored.

Have a nice day.

Anyway I allready got an open carry outfit all picked out

[cougartex]

Even if Texas had open carry, I would still carry concealed.

[Ziran]

Open carry is a worthwhile fight. It may not seem possible today in Texas but many things that seemed inconceivable a year ago are already a reality. Throwing up your hands because you do not think you can get it done RIGHT NOW is a very short sighted policy.

Even if you personally do not want to open carry, even if you are not so hot on the idea of open carry, it is to your benefit to "move the battle lines" in that direction. Would you rather that the cutting edge of 2A was the current lackluster CC system that could shift back and forth (i.e. sometimes you can and sometimes you cannot depending on a latest political fad), or would you rather that that cutting edge was open carry, with your CC being safe behind the battle lines.

The anti gunners are always trying to chip away at your 2A rights one small restriction after another. If you just wholesale abandon open carry you will allow them to concentrate their fight and chip away on things that do matter to you a lot more.

Something to think about.

[marksiwel]

Even if Texas had open carry, I would still carry concealed.

Element of Surprise

I would only Open Carry in few circumstances.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Open carry is a worthwhile fight. It may not seem possible today in Texas but many things that seemed inconceivable a year ago are already a reality. Throwing up your hands because you do not think you can get it done RIGHT NOW is a very short sighted policy.

I swore I wasn't going to get into this thread; I promised myself I wouldn't; I reminded myself how futile it was; but alas, I didn't listen to myself.

Seriously, I'm not about to restate the primary issue I have with open-carry and recent Texas history that supports that concern, but I do want to point out that the fear of failure is not the reason many/most people don't actively support it. Many are concerned about the backlash from the business community (posting of 30.06 signs) and people who know how politics works know that we have only so much political capital to spend each session and there are more pressing issues to address.

If open-carry was truly a non-issue in the 44 states touted as allowing OC, then OpenCarry.org would not exist. Though legal in 44 states, it's not regularly practiced on a broad basis, as evidenced by numerous posts complaining about treatment of people carrying openly. Anything that is controversial burns up political capital; like it or not, that's the way it works.

Chas.

[SwimFan85]

[casingpoint]

The anti gunners are always trying to chip away at your 2A rights one small restriction after another

SCOTUS picks strict scrutiny as the standard of evaluation, the anti gunners will be dead in the water. No pun intended. Gun regulatioms will go down the tubes save for a few select ones with overwhelming public purpose. SCOTUS fairly well designated in Heller who the the survivors will be. Contrary to how the the anti gunners have spun the language of the decision, the High Court did not say "virtually any regulation is acceptable." If you want to open carry in Texas, just hang around a bit longer.