Cuffed and Stuffed

[CWOOD]

was this reported in the newspaper where you are? I'd be interested how the media would report this.
Also, w/o naming the city...can you tell what "government office" this was? I mean was it a city water utility, courthouse, city hall, etc? I know there seems to be some disagreement as to whether a courthouse (but not the court itself) is offlimits.

There should be NO disagreement as to whether, or not, a courthouse is off limits. IT IS!!

The very name should be the clue. The law refers to the premisis of a court of offices used by a court. For premisis, you can substitute "building", just as in referring to a school.

A couple of legislative sessions ago the law was changed. It used to read "court or offices of a court" as being off limits. That meant that you could carry while changing your new vehicle title or paying or disputing your property taxes, but you could not carry in a courtROOM or court OFFICE. In order to get a law with a broader benefit passed, the wording was changed to "premisis" of a court or offices of a court. Now you cannot carry into the building. There was some considerable discussion on this point at the time as to how it would affect us.

I am not sure, but I think the legislation which prompted the trade-off in court language was either the Motorist Protection Act or the Castle Doctrine. It was a good trade but unfortunate that it was required to get a few legislators to support the broader bills.

My fear is that something like that may come up regarding CHL access to the Capitol. Tit for Tat or mutual back scratching.

[handog]

It was not a courthouse or any other mentioned. It was a Gov. Office building. The location wasn't the issue. The issue is that the CHG was somehow identified. As Mr. Cotton has pointed out "it must be "intentional" conduct and that's unique in Texas penal statutes." It was absolutely not exposed intentionally or recklessly therefore the law was NOT BROKEN. I was thrown in jail, had to lissen to the LEOS flipped remarks all day and had my Lic. Suspended and my gun confiscated. It's bull.

[wgoforth]

CWOOD, There has been disagreement in other threads as to whether it is the courtroom only or the entire courthouse, even when we are talking such things as a County Extension Office or Voters registration. Each seems to feel there is not question, but few seem willing to be the test case <g>. The problem seems to be that PC 46.03-06 says building or PORTION of building. So, is the court ONLY the portion in which the court itself is, or the entire building? If you would like to revisit that discussion, check out http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30451" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[marksiwel]

It was not a courthouse or any other mentioned. It was a Gov. Office building. The location wasn't the issue. The issue is that the CHG was somehow identified. As Mr. Cotton has pointed out "it must be "intentional" conduct and that's unique in Texas penal statutes." It was absolutely not exposed intentionally or recklessly therefore the law was NOT BROKEN. I was thrown in jail, had to lissen to the LEOS flipped remarks all day and had my Lic. Suspended and my gun confiscated. It's bull.

I'm normally dont a "Sue Happy" guy, but go for it. Let the cop think twice before he starts running his mouth and cuffing folks without cause.

What kind of remarks was he saying. This whole thing makes my blood boil

[Wisewr]

Not to mention emotional damages caused which they should ultimatly pay for along with any lawyer fees, but maybe you could go out and buy a new carry gun and holster while they have your's and try and get that included in the settlement. Havn't you been eyeing a new gun and holster? Here's your chance to get someone else to pay for it.

[marksiwel]

While I'm at it.
I've heard WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many stories of LEO and Prison guards who "Taunt" people while their locked up? Not only is this Childish, but there is blowback in the community, I can only imagine the harm that this behavior has caused to Police Cooperation with communties to actual police being targeted for crimes.

[handog]

While I'm at it.
I've heard WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many stories of LEO and Prison guards who "Taunt" people while their locked up? Not only is this Childish, but there is blowback in the community, I can only imagine the harm that this behavior has caused to Police Cooperation with communties to actual police being targeted for crimes.

[dicion]

While I'm at it.
I've heard WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many stories of LEO and Prison guards who "Taunt" people while their locked up? Not only is this Childish, but there is blowback in the community, I can only imagine the harm that this behavior has caused to Police Cooperation with communties to actual police being targeted for crimes.

Did you just call me a liar? Childish? Harm to the police? What about harm to our civil liberties? You could be next.

I think he was referring to the LEO's/Guards behavior as childish. Not you.
He then was saying how this childish behavior towards some people in the cells causes the backlash at the police, once they get Out of the cells and back into public.

[handog]

Dont I feel like an ass. My apologies.

[5thGenTexan]

Handog here's hoping you get your gun & plastic back soon. And a public appology from the PD for their handling of the situation, especially the taunting, there is absolutely no excuse for that when you have a law abiding citizen and a questionable arrest at best. Hate to hear about it when that happens, gives all the good LEO's out there a black eye and with a group that is normally very PRO POLICE.

[texas1234]

LEO's can be flotsam. I have run into several of the best LEO's on the planet while getting pulled over with my CHL and carrying and I am glad they are out there, but I have also heard horror stories like this one. LEO's happen to represent the human race, some LEO's are fantastic and some are wasting precious oxygen. Glad you this worked out for you.

Want an example of flotsam, I was out of town and our alarm went off while my wife was at home and the alarm company called HPD and told them a panic button had been pushed although we dont have a panic button, when the cops showed up my wife opened the door and our 13 year old Basset Hound meandered up didnt even bark because she can barely walk and during the course of discussion the *************** (you fill in the blank) HPD officer told my wife if she didnt secure the handicapped disabled 13 year old Basset Hound that could barely walk and wasnt barking he would have to shoot it. The dog was four feet away and has to limp around and she is partially blind and cant see. Needless to say I filed a complaint and I was apologized to profusetly by an HPD Captain. That is FLOTSAM!

Geeze this post got my blood pressure up.

[rm9792]

Government offices are not off limits unless they have a court, are holding a meeting and have posted a 30.06, or are the secured area of a police station (don't think I missed any.)

Even the secured area of the police station isn't statutorily off limits, it's just one area where they have the authority to disarm you. It's not required, but they have the authority to do so if they wish.

I don't understand. What makes the "secure" area of a police station different? It's still government property, isn't it? Wouldn't there have to be a government meeting in progress and a 30.06 sign posted to make it off limits?

As someone who runs around loose in the back areas of a police station I assume they mean areas where prisoners are likely to be. That would include the jail, officers offices, interview rooms, etc. Non LEO might be likely to pay less attention to their surroundings and possibly have their gun snatched by a quick BG.

[s197winstang]

Government offices are not off limits unless they have a court, are holding a meeting and have posted a 30.06, or are the secured area of a police station (don't think I missed any.)

Even the secured area of the police station isn't statutorily off limits, it's just one area where they have the authority to disarm you. It's not required, but they have the authority to do so if they wish.

I don't understand. What makes the "secure" area of a police station different? It's still government property, isn't it? Wouldn't there have to be a government meeting in progress and a 30.06 sign posted to make it off limits?

As someone who runs around loose in the back areas of a police station I assume they mean areas where prisoners are likely to be. That would include the jail, officers offices, interview rooms, etc. Non LEO might be likely to pay less attention to their surroundings and possibly have their gun snatched by a quick BG.

That is correct. I am often in secure holding areas and yes even the agents have guns locked up. It is for officer safety.

[03Lightningrocks]

I for one would love to know how your gun was spotted. Would you mind sharing the gun make/model and holster choice you were using with us?

[gigag04]

While I'm at it.
I've heard WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many stories of LEO and Prison guards who "Taunt" people while their locked up? Not only is this Childish, but there is blowback in the community, I can only imagine the harm that this behavior has caused to Police Cooperation with communties to actual police being targeted for crimes.

From who? I'd be curious to know the details of these stories. You can PM them to me if you like. To be honest, I suspect they are just stories. Have you spent 10 minutes in the secure side of a county jail much less a state prison?

I can tell you from my experiences that everyone processed in our counties jail is called sir or ma'am as long as possible.


Regarding a secure side of a PD - it's exactly that...secure. Sworn personnel and non-sworn staff only. Once in a while a guest comes in, or people from a citizen's police academy, ride-a-long, what have you...but they are always escorted. As a sidenote, even LEO's can't carry in jails. We can't bring guns, mags, knives, or batons. All we get is OC...well and our hands. But I could tag someone with my radio if I really needed too, it's heavier than my ASP.

Not to mention emotional damages caused which they should ultimatly pay for along with any lawyer fees, but maybe you could go out and buy a new carry gun and holster while they have your's and try and get that included in the settlement. Havn't you been eyeing a new gun and holster? Here's your chance to get someone else to pay for it.

Someone else? You do realize that if the government has to pay for it....well...nm. It's not like it's a corporation...



If the OP does bring a civil suit please start a post about it. I'd be very interested in following the outcome of it.