State Employee says no 30.06 needed???

[wgoforth]

I just got off the phone with Monica at the TX DPS Concealed Handgun Dept, who informed me that businesses do not have to have the 30.06 sign. That if the sign says no guns, that is sufficient. When I related to her that their own website says that there must be a 30.06, she put me on hold to talk with a tec. When she came back, she again stated that if they have let you know verbally, written, or with any wording of sign that guns are not allowed, the a CHL holder is not permitted to carry.

While I KNOW she is wrong, that concerns me greatly that the phone person and a tec at the dept that handles this would both think this.

Feel free to call them at (512) 424-7293 and see if you get a different response. A simple "Does a business have to display a 30.06 to keep out chl's or does a generic no gun sign suffice" should be sufficient to see what they will say.

[PUCKER]

Maybe the phone number is routed to the Grapevine Police Department??

What's the point of a law if it doesn't mean anything? Especially to the people sworn to uphold it? And to the people that work for the DPS CHL unit...?? That's literally C R A Z Y...

[A-R]

Did you get a name of either person at DPS with whom you spoke? You should forward the info to Charles Cotton. I'm sure he'd find it interesting and know the right people higher up the ladder at DPS to contact about it.

[shortysboy09]

Monica at the TX DPS Concealed Handgun Dept, who informed me that businesses do not have to have the 30.06 sign.

Looks like she goes by Monica.

[almostfree]

She may be talking about if you are an employee of the business. It is my understanding that you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05 if you are an employee and you carry against company policy that you have been informed of in writing or verbally (usually by company manual). It is kind of a funny situation though, because I read an attorney general opinion that says you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05, but then in the statute itself, it is a defense to prosecution under 30.05 that you are a CHL holder. It was a question on the test when I took my CHL class, and the right answer was that you could be charged with criminal trespass if you had been informed by your employer. It is more likely they would just fire you, but it is possible.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... M#prohibit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From reading the statues, I am still not convinced that an employer doesn't have to post 30.06 in order to prohbit employees from carrying, despite DPS' interpretation to the contrary.

[A-R]

Monica at the TX DPS Concealed Handgun Dept, who informed me that businesses do not have to have the 30.06 sign.

Looks like she goes by Monica.

doh! guess I'll read more closely next time

[wgoforth]

She may be talking about if you are an employee of the business. It is my understanding that you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05 if you are an employee and you carry against company policy that you have been informed of in writing or verbally (usually by company manual). It is kind of a funny situation though, because I read an attorney general opinion that says you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05, but then in the statute itself, it is a defense to prosecution under 30.05 that you are a CHL holder. It was a question on the test when I took my CHL class, and the right answer was that you could be charged with criminal trespass if you had been informed by your employer. It is more likely they would just fire you, but it is possible.

Unfortunately she said if there was any place that had a no gun sign, she wouldn't carry in there. After talking with the tec, she came back with "if you receive ANY written, verbal or signage that guns are not permitted, then it's not." After I read to her from my 2007-2008 Handgun Laws, she said "Well there is a new one. Would you like me to send a copy." I saw that was going nowhere, so I just said "sure."

Don't get me wrong, she was very courteous and polite. I am just concerned about having some very uninformed people in that dept. Thing is, she has answered the phone there I know for the past couple of years that I have called!

[A-R]

Unfortunately she said if there was any place that had a no gun sign, she wouldn't carry in there. After talking with the tec, she came back with "if you receive ANY written, verbal or signage that guns are not permitted, then it's not." After I read to her from my 2007-2008 Handgun Laws, she said "Well there is a new one. Would you like me to send a copy." I saw that was going nowhere, so I just said "sure."

Don't get me wrong, she was very courteous and polite. I am just concerned about having some very uninformed people in that dept. Thing is, she has answered the phone there I know for the past couple of years that I have called!

Did she preface her comments to you by saying "I am not a lawyer, but ..."

if not she may be illegally practicing law http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... ilit=ianal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, I am not a lawyer, but I am planning to stay at a Holiday Inn Express sometime this year.

[PUCKER]

Here's the possible "upside" to this...business owners that WANT to prohibit CHLs call up and talk to this gal at DPS...she tells them ANY sign will work...(do you see where I'm going with this?)...so the business owners just post up a gunbusters sign, no guns sign, etc...and NOT a valid 30.06 sign. Just a thought.

[Keith B]

I think they need to be straightened out on the law, or at least not try to mis-quote it. Maybe she should have said 'I am not a lawyer'. (austinrealtor beat me to it. LOL)

As far as worrying about it, I won't. At least until she has powers of arrest.

[wgoforth]

Here's the possible "upside" to this...business owners that WANT to prohibit CHLs call up and talk to this gal at DPS...she tells them ANY sign will work...(do you see where I'm going with this?)...so the business owners just post up a gunbusters sign, no guns sign, etc...and NOT a valid 30.06 sign. Just a thought.

Agreed! That's why I would like to see someone else call in and just ask. Not argue with them, but just ASK them if a 30.06 is needed and just see if this view is prevalent in that office. Hey...who is the reporter that played as a pimp and went to the ACORN office? Maybe we can send him to that dept to ask and get it on film!

[wgoforth]

Here is a letter I just fired off to the CHL "E-mail us" address:
**********************************************************************
Sir, I spoke with a lady at your office today who identified herself as Monica. She was very courteous and respectful and this is not to detract from her in any way. However, she stated to me several times that a business does not have to have a 30.06 sign in order to forbid conceal carry. She said if the sign says "no guns" then you shouldn't carry. I asked if she were sure, as your website specifies they must display a sign. She spoke with a tec and affirmed it was correct.

Either instructors for CHL need to be corrected, because they tell their class that if it's not a 30.06 then it can be ignored. OR, both she and the tec need to be corrected. Since 30.06 is what ALL chl holders look for in going into businesses, this needs to be addressed.


Note this from your own website:

Regulatory Licensing Service
Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau

PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS OR OTHER ENTITY

In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:

"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."



Download language

Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:

includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
Please note that while the language provided above may be downloaded for convenience, it does not meet the requirements of Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) and may not be used as a sign.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can contact the Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau at :

REGULATORY LICENSING SERVICE MSC 0245
TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
PO BOX 4087
AUSTIN TX 78773-0245
Phone: (512) 424-7293 or (512) 424-7294
Helpline: (800) 224-5744

[C-dub]

Here's the possible "upside" to this...business owners that WANT to prohibit CHLs call up and talk to this gal at DPS...she tells them ANY sign will work...(do you see where I'm going with this?)...so the business owners just post up a gunbusters sign, no guns sign, etc...and NOT a valid 30.06 sign. Just a thought.

I like the way you think Pucker.

Now, if only we can get that parking lot situation straightened out. I'm pretty sure it will get passed in 2011, so there's less than 20 months to go until September 1, 2011.

[The Annoyed Man]

AFAIK, SINAL.*









(*She Is Not A Lawyer)




Of course.... YMMV.

[Oldgringo]

AFAIK, SINAL.*









(*She Is Not A Lawyer)




Of course.... YMMV.