National Guard Base

[marksiwel]

About a year ago I went to a National Guard base in Austin.
At the gate they (private security) made me open my trunk, and asked me if I had any weapons in the car. I told them I had a pistol in the glove compartment. They made me remove the ammo and store the pistol in my trunk.

SO what that legal?

[ELB]

I suspect it was legal, altho it is an interesting question as to whether a Guard location is actually state or federal property. If it is state property, I don't recall any provisions carved out in the CHL statutes for banning CHLs on National Guard property. In your case, you don't say if you have a CHL or not. If you didn't have a CHL, perhaps there are some rules about guns on state property similar to the TPWD being able to regulate non-CHL firearms on state park and wildland property. However it may be that National Guard turf is considered federal property.

Although we like to think of the National Guard as a state force, it is really a reserve component of the federal military structure (after all, it is the NATIONAL, not the State, Guard), and it was established by, and is largely funded and equipped by the feds. The states get to run some management tasks, like promotions and so forth, and use them when the feds don't need them, but when push comes to shove, the federal gummint owns the National Guard. So it may be that National Guard bases and other property fall under Federal authority for security.

Never thought about this before, interesting question.

[C-dub]

I've looked around and can't find THE answer to this. However, isn't it the Texas National Guard or Alaska National Guard? Isn't it under the command of the Governor until The POTUS calls them up to national service? This would make me think that it is State property.

[marksiwel]

Well if the National Guard is a Federal Entity, then I guess that takes the wind out of the sales of "Militias mean State National Guard" crowd.

But if its State property, I was disarmed in a possible violation of the law.

I wonder what the rule is for National Guardsmen who live on Base?

Looking at the Wikipedia Article on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_G ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The National Guard of the United States is a reserve military force composed of state National Guard militia members or units under federally recognized active or inactive armed force service for the United States.

I wonder if this means as a Governor you could refuse to send your National Guard Unit overseas?

Its actually an interesting read, they even go into "State defense Forces"

[srothstein]

Camp Mabry is the Headquarters base for the National Guard in Texas. I have always been told that it is a state owned facility but I could not find real evidence of that just now searching for it. The official history of it (on the state military forces museum page) shows that the post was started by Austin donating 80 acres of land to the state, then the state volunteer forces (forerunners of the National Guard) raising money to buy another 95 acres, and the federal money buying 200 more acres.

What makes me thing it is still state owned is the former use of it for DPS as a police academy site (TABC used it quite often also, but coordinated that through the Guard offices). It still also houses the headquarters for several state offices, including the Adjutant General and the State Guard. But there is a joint state/federal office there for property disposal and I know of a Navy reserve (not Guard) unit that is also based there (but their site is set off from the rest of the base with separate fencing - the only way to it is from Camp Mabry though).

So, I still think it is state owned and they could not legally make you unload the weapon that way. But I cannot prove that for you.

[ELB]

Well if the National Guard is a Federal Entity, then I guess that takes the wind out of the sales of "Militias mean State National Guard" crowd.

Yes it does. I figured this out in college, when I studied the structure and history of the armed forces in ROTC. The colonial militias were more or less built from the ground up, with militia members responsible for providing their own arms. There were programs to help those too poor to buy their own, and colonial governments often paid for powder and bullets, and heavy weaponry like cannons, but it was essentially a local defense force. The National Guard was established and organized by Congress and it has always been seen as a state-by-state reserve of the national active duty military. There are two components to the reserves of the US: The Reserves and The National Guard.

The Texas State Guard would come much closer to the traditional meaning of militia, altho as I understand it members don't provide their own guns (altho they can CHL, I believe )

I wonder if this means as a Governor you could refuse to send your National Guard Unit overseas?

You could, but you would lose. President Reagan sent the Correction: Minnesota (not Arkansas) Guard to Central America on a deployment. Correction: Minn Governor Perpich (Not Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton) objected, sued in federal court, and lost. The Guard is a federal force, federal commands take precedence.

(Corrections noted above. The case is Perpich vs Dept of Defense, decided in favor of DoD in USCA 8th Circuit. Because previous Governors had tried this, Congress passed the "Montgomery Amendment" in 1986 removing the requirement for Governor's consent. You can read the case here: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardw ... erpich.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I don't know that this actually has anything to do with the OP, but I wanted to be correct and complete. )

[ELB]

Camp Mabry is the Headquarters base for the National Guard in Texas. I have always been told that it is a state owned facility ...So, I still think it is state owned and they could not legally make you unload the weapon that way. But I cannot prove that for you.

It may very well be that legally the ground is state property, and it would not surprise me -- would be one way for the DoD to not have to worry about yet another piece of property. I had never really thought about it before -- it's just that considering the Guard is set up to be a federal reserve force that started me wondering about it.

[bdickens]

All the National guard soldiers Iv'e ever seen had "US ARMY" on their uniforms.

[davlanders]

National Guard Armories are federally owned and you are lucky they did not confiscate your firearm. They are generally not allowed on federal military grounds.

[srothstein]

I just thought of something and confirmed it. Camp Mabry is owned by the state. Travis County Appraisal District says the land is owned by the state and land alone is valued at about 16,500,000.

[marksiwel]

National Guard Armories are federally owned and you are lucky they did not confiscate your firearm. They are generally not allowed on federal military grounds.

Well I wasn't IN the base yet, they make you check in, and all that, I would have just turned around if they started with that foolishness. The Guards there aren't military, or police, they are Rent-a-cops

[ELB]

I think srothstein cleverly solved the puzzle of whether it is state or federal owned. That would not necessarily prevent the feds from trying to enforce federal rules anywhere federal dollars are spent. Interesting question -- CHL on National Guard properties, and do the rules change when feds are involved with money or active duty time?

However I have other homework to do now. sigh.

[Purplehood]

Try and rob a National Guard Armory (Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, etc.) and see who comes knocking on your door.

[chabouk]

No matter who owns the armory, it is a "federal facility" under 18 USC 930, because federal employees regularly work there. The administrator and clerk are DoD civilian employees on a GS scale.

I have a friend who is a major in the Arkansas NG, and is also the unit administrative officer. On the weekends when he flies his NG helicopter, he's an O-4, and during the week when he's the administrator he's a GS-11.

[WarHawk-AVG]

I've looked around and can't find THE answer to this. However, isn't it the Texas National Guard or Alaska National Guard? Isn't it under the command of the Governor until The POTUS calls them up to national service? This would make me think that it is State property.

National guard is Federal, they recieve federal funding

State guard is local, we barely get any funding...all uniforms/equipment comes out of pocket

http://www.txsg.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;