Heartland Mall, Early Texas

[JJVP]

He replied "Don't you dare carry in that mall. I used to provide security there and if caught it will be a felony." I asked "Even without the required 30.06?" He said "Yes sir.

I would have asked him " A felony? Based on what law?" If you want to know about the law, ask a lawyer. A cop is the last person to ask about the law. Most don't know diddly about the laws.
Now if you want to know about the best donuts in town...

[surprise_i'm_armed]

wgoforth:

Please, for the sake of the rest of the CHL's in your area, stop being such
a chatty Kathy about any place's non-compliant gun signs.

You are raising the awareness of the mall management that their signs are
not compliant. You told them about 30.06. They may be lining up the proper
30.06 signage right now. Then no CHL's will ever be able to carry again in there.

You couldn't know that the LEO you chatted up used to work security there,
but now if you are at the mall and he's visiting old friends there, you have outed
yourself as a CHL. His opinion is that you will be arrested, but the letter of the CHL
law says you're OK due to no proper 30.06.

Even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if he kept his mouth shut.

We are CHL's. Be vewwy vewwy quiet. Please don't wake the sleeping dogs
who post non-compliant gunbuster type signs. We don't need any more stinkin'
30.06's.

Thank you for your future silence.

SIA

[wgoforth]

Good gravy man! This is not the metroplex. I have the distinct feeling that should anyone be discovered carrying in the mall here they will go to jail. Sure, it could probably be overturned in court after lawyers and time spent, but who wants that?? Their argument here is that the mall is private property, they have deemed it no gun area. You carry one you have broken it and the authorities here apparently agree. Good ol boy network. As to "for the sake of others keep you mouth shut"... I am doing this in part for other CHL holders, as I don't want to see anyone arrested in this. If they intend to ban CHL holders, then do so, but don't play this hide the sign and send them to jail routine.

Wayne

[surprise_i'm_armed]

wgoforth:

Sir, I see that you are trying to watch out for other CHL's.
But I disagree with talking to property owners about how they are not
compliant with 30.06 posting requirements. This is counter-productive.

But whether a CHL is in Early (Brown County), or any other part of Texas, the law
regarding 30.06 is still the same. If a place really cares about keeping CHL's out,
they will give proper notice per the 30.06 requirements.

Every day CHL's walk past non-compliant gunbuster signs while armed. There is a
tiny chance that they will ever be "made" as carrying. Concealed means concealed.

If they are never "made" and they never have to draw their weapon during an incident at the mall, then
everything is still below the LEO's radar.

You mention that Early is not the Metroplex. True. But in such a low population area,
you have raised the awareness of the mall management.

Again, please let the sleeping dogs lie. Other CHL's will make their own choice where
they can carry (into non-compliant posted sites). Your actions may produce a proper
30.06 posting, which will cause CHL's to have to leave their guns in their vehicles.

Please let us know if the Early Mall posts compliant 30.06 notice.
Should they do so, please add an entry to http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Thank you.

SIA

[bdickens]

Making the matter even weirder.... I saw an older State Trooper in the Quick Mart, so I said "your someone I'd like to pick the brains of. Just moved here, and while at the mall, I noticed waay in the back in tiny letters is a "Mall Etiquette" sign. (it's 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper with about 20 different rules). And on down the list it says no weapons, legal or illegal." I went on to say that I had a CHL, and since they had no 30.06 sign, what was a LEO's view of it. He replied "Don't you dare carry in that mall. I used to provide security there and if caught it will be a felony." I asked "Even without the required 30.06?" He said "Yes sir. They used to have the sign, don't know where it's gone, but you do not carry." Wow. So, sounds like although I have my right to carry, it could still involve jail and lawyers until cleared.

As to "concealed is concealed"... that is true, but I have been asked by stores what was in my hip pack. (They probably were concerned with shoplifting). Another time, a store employee kept eying the bulge in my pocket, although no outline could be made. So kinda betwen a rock and hardplace.
thanks Wayne

That state trooper was so full of something his eyes are brown.

The correct answer to prying questions is "none of your business."

[lonewolf]

Big whopping mall......in the old days there was a JC Pennys on one end and a KMart on the other (1983). Now its pretty much a ghost town full of echos. Back in the day there were a lot of neat shops in downtown Brownwood as well, but the Wally World pretty much killed all that. Even the hardware/lumber stores have all but disappeared since Home Depot showed up. I'd bet the only grocery store in town, other than Walmart is the Kroger's, and they won't even expand it into a big Kroger that will take up the entire building they are in.......

Still,I do like the area......

[C-dub]

Right, but is this verbal notice sufficient? I was thinking they have to give it to me in writing>
thanks

Really? You were thinking that they had to give you verbal notice in writing? Umm, wouldn't that be written notice?

And as far as them not asking for or you giving them your name I have only one thing to say. Caller I.D.

Many of us have learned over the years, sometimes the hard way, to keep our mouths shut about our CHLs and stop telling the ignorant stores how to prevent us from carrying on their property. That is why this forum is so great. We can talk about CHL issues with others that we know are of like minds.

[wgoforth]

Right, but is this verbal notice sufficient? I was thinking they have to give it to me in writing>
thanks

Really? You were thinking that they had to give you verbal notice in writing? Umm, wouldn't that be written notice?

And as far as them not asking for or you giving them your name I have only one thing to say. Caller I.D.

Many of us have learned over the years, sometimes the hard way, to keep our mouths shut about our CHLs and stop telling the ignorant stores how to prevent us from carrying on their property. That is why this forum is so great. We can talk about CHL issues with others that we know are of like minds.

That's not what I meant. I was asking if verbal notice was sufficient or did it have to be in writing.
thanks.
Wayne

[C-dub]

Wgoforth,I sincerely apologize. I didn't understand it, but that's what it looked like to me when I read it.

[wgoforth]

Big whopping mall......in the old days there was a JC Pennys on one end and a KMart on the other (1983). Now its pretty much a ghost town full of echos. Back in the day there were a lot of neat shops in downtown Brownwood as well, but the Wally World pretty much killed all that. Even the hardware/lumber stores have all but disappeared since Home Depot showed up. I'd bet the only grocery store in town, other than Walmart is the Kroger's, and they won't even expand it into a big Kroger that will take up the entire building they are in.......

Still,I do like the area......

The population has gone from 20,000 to 26,000 in 10 years. We have 3-M and Kohler bath products here as well. We still have McCoy's and Higginbothams and Weakly-Watson's. The contractors seem to like Higginbothams. In fact, we purchased the house that Mr Weakly built back in the 50's. Grocery stores... along with Kroger we have Brookshires. On Downtown, still a lot of neat shops. Fisk and Center St are revitalized with the trendy "Turtle Restaurant" located there. Penny's is still in the mall as is Beals, but they are moving back to the old Commerce Square shopping center due to rent. That may finish off the mall. When I was telling one of our church members tonight about our problem, he said he was going to write the mall and tell them no gun=no money from him.

Wayne

[03Lightningrocks]

You have hit upon one of many reasons why it's a good idea not to mention non-compliant signs. It gives them the opportunity to give you verbal notice that they don't want you there, and it gives them the opportunity to post a compliant sign.

As for whether you continue to carry/patronize the businesses, I can't really say.

Excellent point. Best to just keep ones mouth shut and carry concealed.

[03Lightningrocks]

wgoforth:

Please, for the sake of the rest of the CHL's in your area, stop being such
a chatty Kathy about any place's non-compliant gun signs.

You are raising the awareness of the mall management that their signs are
not compliant. You told them about 30.06. They may be lining up the proper
30.06 signage right now. Then no CHL's will ever be able to carry again in there.

You couldn't know that the LEO you chatted up used to work security there,
but now if you are at the mall and he's visiting old friends there, you have outed
yourself as a CHL. His opinion is that you will be arrested, but the letter of the CHL
law says you're OK due to no proper 30.06.

Even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if he kept his mouth shut.

We are CHL's. Be vewwy vewwy quiet. Please don't wake the sleeping dogs
who post non-compliant gunbuster type signs. We don't need any more stinkin'
30.06's.

Thank you for your future silence.

SIA

My new favorite post.

[wgoforth]

You have hit upon one of many reasons why it's a good idea not to mention non-compliant signs. It gives them the opportunity to give you verbal notice that they don't want you there, and it gives them the opportunity to post a compliant sign.

As for whether you continue to carry/patronize the businesses, I can't really say.

Excellent point. Best to just keep ones mouth shut and carry concealed.

For the most part I would agree...but the problem here is that the authorities are the security and they agree with the idea that the sign is sufficient and that if your caught carrying you go to jail with a felony. Don't kid yourselves into thinking that experienced LEO's can't tell if someone is carrying. They may not be able to 100% of the time, but even many of us can while the general population cannot. If you see a guy with the same hip bag and fanny pack that you see in the gun shops it's a give away. Cops can spot that too. My point is that I want to educate the authorities and the mall here. Sure, we could beat the rap after hiring a lawyer and spending time in jail, but who needs that?? Again, I would normally agree to keep mouth shut. I have done that at many places...but when the mall and the police both agree, sounds like a perfect good-ol-boy system possibility to me.
Wayne

[03Lightningrocks]

......When I was telling one of our church members tonight about our problem, he said he was going to write the mall and tell them no gun=no money from him.
Wayne

LOL...your kidding...right?

[03Lightningrocks]

You have hit upon one of many reasons why it's a good idea not to mention non-compliant signs. It gives them the opportunity to give you verbal notice that they don't want you there, and it gives them the opportunity to post a compliant sign.

As for whether you continue to carry/patronize the businesses, I can't really say.

Excellent point. Best to just keep ones mouth shut and carry concealed.

For the most part I would agree...but the problem here is that the authorities are the security and they agree with the idea that the sign is sufficient and that if your caught carrying you go to jail with a felony. Don't kid yourselves into thinking that experienced LEO's can't tell if someone is carrying. They may not be able to 100% of the time, but even many of us can while the general population cannot. If you see a guy with the same hip bag and fanny pack that you see in the gun shops it's a give away. Cops can spot that too. My point is that I want to educate the authorities and the mall here. Sure, we could beat the rap after hiring a lawyer and spending time in jail, but who needs that?? Again, I would normally agree to keep mouth shut. I have done that at many places...but when the mall and the police both agree, sounds like a perfect good-ol-boy system possibility to me.
Wayne

I don't think your getting it yet. If your caught carrying it means you have failed to conceal properly. Your going to get in trouble for failure to conceal. Sign or no sign. Seriously...the law is the law on this. Incorrect posting means you can carry. If you keep poking at the Tiger cage, your gonna get ate. Your going to have a fit if you walk in there and it is properly posted, thanks to your hard efforts and the help from the anti-gun cop you spoke with. It is probably natural for new CHL holders to feel like everyone can see the gun, but trust me...keep it under a shirt or vest and nobody will even come close to guessing you have a gun. Bulge in pocket for 99% of the population of Texas means keys or cell phone. your the only one that knows your bulge is a gun.

Some places post gun buster signs and what not to make the sheep feel safer. They really could not care less if you carry there. They also may be pulling a legal maneuver to avoid law suites if you blast someone in the mall with your CHL authorized weapon. Don't force them to properly post the place. Just keep your gun concealed and your mouth closed.