Guns on school campus?

[karl]

Did someone say ex-LEO?

That's not fair.

[Photoman]

Good grief. I don't know whether to laugh or cry every time I see that one. He broke all four rules...

[smyrna]

...they should consider hiring a retired officer to do security for the school, it would save a lot of grief about the teacher that possesses the weapon being untrained.

Maybe that's not possible, but I'd trust an ex-LEO more than Mr. Daniels, 4th grade Geography teacher.

Wow! With attitudes like that, it's a wonder John Q. Public believes anyone should be allowed to concealed carry other than law enforcement. I'm not saying you have to agree with teachers who have a CHL being allowed by the school board to carry at work (which is what I believe the original post is about), but there has got to be a better argument than that.

I mean, statements like, "I'd trust law enforcement to carry before I would (insert profession here)," only negates the Texas CHL for everyone.

[karl]

I mean, statements like, "I'd trust law enforcement to carry before I would (insert profession here)," only negates the Texas CHL for everyone.

That may be true but it's exactly what people think when their family isn't very familiar or comfortable with weapons. I'm not saying that a CHL holder isn't competent, I'm saying that people would feel better.

[howdy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Columbine High School had an armed LEO on campus and he "fell back to summon reinforcements". I believe the first LEO didn't enter the building for 1 1/2 hours after the shooting started.

[SlowDave]

I like the not getting on the defensive thing, but I think their immediate reaction will be "Yeah, I think that I'm not willing to take the risk that *someone* with a CHL could be irresponsible or unskilled" at which point I think that needs to be balanced with the huge positives that most people don't recognize.

One other point on the school carry stuff: not only does it take some time for responders to reach the scene, in enough force to meet their guidelines for confronting an armed shooter, but THEN they have to go into the school and try to figure out what's going on, where the shooting is, etc. That could easily take 10 minutes, IMHO. If you think of the other extreme (i.e. every teacher & admin armed), there would likely be someone within sight when the shooting started who would understand the entire development and could address it immediately. This even applies to a lesser extent to on-campus security guards. They hear shooting, or have it reported via radio, then have to go to the area and start looking for the bad guy, determine where he's at, what weapons he has, and all that. Meanwhile, the people who are being shot at understand the situation very well and could respond much more effectively/timely due to having been there through it all.

[AEA]

If the young girl at Yale had her CHL (or equivalent) and the law allowed carry in the killing zone of Yale, she may have had a chance of protecting herself from that lunatic that killed her!

She is dead because of her inability to protect herself due to idiots that we put into office that make the crazy laws.

Really such a shame.....and it will continue and only get worse in the current administration.

[Liberty]

If the young girl at Yale had her CHL (or equivalent) and the law allowed carry in the killing zone of Yale, she may have had a chance of protecting herself from that lunatic that killed her!

She is dead because of her inability to protect herself due to idiots that we put into office that make the crazy laws.

Really such a shame.....and it will continue and only get worse in the current administration.

Really I thought gunrights were getting better under Obama, while they talk some pretty mean talk, things just seem to be getting better all the time. People are buying more guns, congress is speaking out about 2nd ammendment rights. I think one positive thing about Obama is that he woke us up, The NRA seems more agressive. Where have we lost out on gun rights since the Obama man has taken over? He has woken a sleeping giant, just like Jimmy Carter did.

[lonewolf]

If the young girl at Yale had her CHL (or equivalent) and the law allowed carry in the killing zone of Yale, she may have had a chance of protecting herself from that lunatic that killed her!

She is dead because of her inability to protect herself due to idiots that we put into office that make the crazy laws.

Really such a shame.....and it will continue and only get worse in the current administration.

An awful lot variables in there...

If she had a CHL and the law allowed carry....

she may have had a chance....

Sad, but very true, but I don't see CHL or the laws being updated/changed as being the be-all end-all to violence. Most people are taken by surprise. Most people (am guessing here) wouldn't get a CHL. Evidenced by the fact that we are a definite minority of the general population. We are even a minority among gun owners. Probably always will be.

If we were to go to the opposite extreme, and all 300+million in the country carried guns all the time, I think the rate of gun violence would escalate in that scenario. Right now, at least a smart crook has the fear of the unknown armed citizen to deal with. Knowing we were all armed would just make their tactics worse and fatalities higher. On both sides. I believe we are at war with crime, but that it is a war we will never totally win. I'm just trying to even the odds a little.

I understand the frustration, however. Another wonderful young life, a good and responsible person, removed in the most vile manner.

We all carry for personal reasons. And AEA, I certainly respect you, given the posts I have seen here. Please don't mistake this post as being confrontational. I believe we have much more in common than otherwise.

I am also a new freshman at the local university. It has an enrollment of 27,000+ this year. I wish I could carry there. At my age (44), I believe I can be respnsible on campaus when carrying under my CHL. I can assure you that I completely agree that every campus has the potential of being a major kill zone. I see the potential every day.

[nils]

I still never understood why it was more dangerous for me to carry my weapon on school property as opposed to church, or the grocery store, or an outdoor concert at Miller Outdoor Theater....I just don't get it...is a 3rd grader going to disarm me and go on a rampage? Am I going to accidentally drop my weapon in the cafeteria and shoot myself in the leg??? Help me understand...please....

[AEA]

Liberty and lonewolf......

Thanks for your replies and comments.

[ammo two]

I think lonewolf made a good comment that could be applied to guns on school if one could carry legally in school premises. He mentioned "Right now, at least a smart crook has the fear of the unknown armed citizen to deal with." Which we hope is true in those areas that are not posted as Gun Free Zones. I'd like to believe being allowed to carry on campus (chl holder) would have that same kind of impact. Enough of a deterrent for the "potential bad guy" to decide that it is not worth the risk.

[C-dub]

I still never understood why it was more dangerous for me to carry my weapon on school property as opposed to church, or the grocery store, or an outdoor concert at Miller Outdoor Theater....I just don't get it...is a 3rd grader going to disarm me and go on a rampage? Am I going to accidentally drop my weapon in the cafeteria and shoot myself in the leg??? Help me understand...please....

It's not a good reason, but I think it is because schools are supposed to be a more stressful environment. At least colleges, anyway. It has been quite some time since we've seen a student upset at a grade they were given and take it out on the teacher. This was the original reason we were banned from hospitals. It was thought to be too much of an emotional and stressful place. Maybe with that change more will realize that schools, at least college campuses, are no different. Then maybe later all schools.

[Excaliber]

This well reasoned article by Mas Ayoob pretty well summarizes the situation:

The Israeli Answer to Terrorism

[joe817]

This well reasoned article by Mas Ayoob pretty well summarizes the situation:

The Israeli Answer to Terrorism

This should be required reading by all and prospective CHL holders. Thank you for posting this Excaliber. Fascinating article with much food for thought.