allowed to carry inside clinic/doctors office?

[DrinkRaiderade]

I personally spoke to the UT-Southwestern and the Texas Tech Police Departments about this and they BOTH said that since the Hospitals are owned and run by the University that CHL carry was banned there since they are educational institutions. Parkland is affiliated, but owned by the county, thus you can carry there. Zale Lipshy and St Paul are owned by the University of Texas and hold classes for Southwestern. You will definately take the ride, and if you want to fight the Liberal Dallas County DA, have at it, but you are braver than me...

[DrinkRaiderade]

http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda ... tml#pistol" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UT Southwestern Medical Center Police even address it on their website...off limits.

[dicion]

http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda ... tml#pistol

The UT Southwestern Medical Center Police even address it on their website...off limits.

NOTE: It is unlawful to carry a firearm on campus (PC Section 46.03. Places Weapons Prohibited) even if you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

Since when was it ever claimed that Police actually know the laws properly?

Granted, it appears that this hospital is actually located ON a university Campus. That makes it a little more Grey area then, say, Memorial Hermann down in the Medical Center in Houston, which is not on a campus, but is 'affiliated with' a school.

[C-dub]

They sure do. And they are sort of correct. I cannot carry into any of the University's buildings. However, I can park on their campus and leave my weapon in my car unless they also have the parking lots properly posted. I can also drive through the campus with my weapon concealed on my hip and there's nothing they can do about it. I can even walk around on the campus as long as I do not enter any of the buildings while carrying. I don't think the parking garage falls within the definition of a building or structure for these purposes. Anyone?

This all still does not apply to the hospital as it is not "The University". Parkland Hospital is affiliated with UT-Southwestern, but not owned by them like St.Paul or Zale. I've worked in a few hospitals and teaching goes on in almost all hospitals. Just about any hospital that is anywhere near a school that teaches nurses or any other medical professional allows these students to come in and do rotations with already licensed nurses and doctors. This does not make the hospital a school.

It is obvious that the campus police do not want weapons on their campus, but they are not accurate in their statement. As many have said here before, the police are not always the best source for legal advice. Some are, but most are not. When I first got my CHL I encountered a Dallas Seargent that didn't even know what that was or that the state was issuing licenses to civilians to carry concealed handguns. And this was in 2002.

[C-dub]

Quickdraw McGraw beat me to it again.

[dicion]

Yes, but your answer was more detailled!

[DrinkRaiderade]

Okay, this is the last thing I am going to say on this topic, as obviously you all are going to do as you please.

First please notice that I said "University Owned" not University Affiliated. University Owned hospitals usually have University in their name "University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center" "University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center St. Paul Hospital" "University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Zale Lipshey Hospital" "University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Aston Ambulatory Care Clinic" "University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston" "University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center" "Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center" "University of North Texas Health Sciences Center", etc.

A University Affiliated Hospital would be Parkland, Children's, Texas Health Presbyterian, etc. Parkland is County Owned and cannot restrict carry by CHL holders, Children's & Texas Health are both private and both post 30.06 notices at ALL entrances to restrict carry. I was not referring to these hospitals.

The way the Police Chief at UTSW explained it to me (he was very knowledgeable and not against concealed carry, he said he consults with the County DA's office, the Governor's office, and the Board of Regents, after every legislative session to see how new laws will effect UTSW) is that UTSW is kind of "double covered". While UT Southwestern Medical Center is a Hospital that would normally require 30.06 notice to restrict carry, since they are "government owned" they cannot legally post 30.06 notice. Instead, they fall under the realm of Educational Institution (The University Owned Hospitals are specifically defined as Educational Institution by the Education Code, see the previously mentioned thread), and as such carry is restricted without the need for 30.06 notice, just like any other "school or university". This is shown by the last legislative session and the campus carry bill, it was amended to not include specified "teaching hospitals" for some reason. Even if the campus carry bill had passed, carry would have still been restricted at these University owned Hospitals. Why would that "exception" to the new law have been put in place if carry was already allowed at them? It's not. The Doctors at these Hospitals are actually "Faculty". They are part of the Teacher's Retirement System of the State. There are medical, graduate, allied health, nursing, and pharmacy students at these hospitals, taking accredited coursework to earn degrees from a University.

Parkland is a different animal. Parkland is a County owned Hospital. Parkland contracts with UTSW to provide some staffing for care. Doctors at Parkland are UT-Southwestern Faculty. Nurses at Parkland are Dallas County Employees. There are also UTSW Residents and Medical Students present at Parkland to provide care. The Buildings at UTSW connect to Parkland, but they are Distinct and separated by Double Doors and a sign that says "Entering Parkland Memorial Hospital". They bill separately, they have different police forces (Parkland is Dallas County Hospital District Police), and they have different administration. Carry is allowed at Parkland with a CHL, it is not at UT-Southwestern. To make it messier, Children's Hospital also connects to these two facilities. Children's is a privately owned non profit and is allowed to post 30.06 (and they do!). I believe Children's has their own security team and is responded to by Dallas PD (some collaboration is also used with UTSW and Dallas County Hospital District Police in some incidents)

This truly is a "gray area" in the law, as it appears to be giving conflicting statuses on places like UT-Southwestern. That is why I went to the head of the police force to see what he had to say about it. The above is the direction that he gave me. If they find out you have a concealed weapon on the premises of UT-Southwestern, you will be arrested and taken to the county jail and charges will be filed with the DA's office. The DA has told the UTSW Police Chief that carry IS NOT ALLOWED at UT-Southwestern. Thus, the DA's office will probably try to prosecute you for carrying at an Educational Institution. The DA is a Liberal Democrat, and by most indications not "gun-friendly". You will then go to trial and get a chance to explain your side of things to the Judge and Jury. They may side with you and acquit on the grounds that it is an unposted hospital, they may say that a medical school is an educational institution and convict you for carrying. Either way you are going to be out a lot of money, time, hassle, and be facing punishment. As Charles says, those on the leading edge of the law usually end up bleeding the most. I don't want to be the test case for this area as I cant afford it. I would love to be able to carry at UT-Southwestern (I work there, go to school there, and live across the street) but as of right now, I cannot take the risk. You may see differently, but please understand if you have to use your weapon, or its presence becomes known in any way, you will probably take the ride downtown, and the DA has said he will probably press charges. Do as you see fit.

[Abraham]

Whenever I go see my family Doc, we have a ritual, that is, once we're in the closed door examining room, the first thing he asks is (with a conspiratorial grin on his face) "Are You Packing?

My answer: "I never leave home without it!"

We both grin.

He's a skeet and trap shooter and has no problem with my CHL status and that I'm packing.

[C-dub]

Appologies DrinkRaideraid.

At first I thought you were using UTSW interchangably with Parkland, but actually I think we are both saying the same things. I received my degree from UTSW and remember when the bullet-proof glass went up in the ER. Is it still there? I did rotations at Parkland and a couple other hospitals in the area, but this was before I got my CHL.

[gemini]

I have 2 different Dr's that hunt, fish, AND have CHL's. Carry in either office
is a non-issue. In fact, on a few occasions, we've inspected each others sidearms
and discussed carry techniques, type of holsters used etc.

[Venus Pax]

My OB has no idea.

[USA1]

wouldn't it be great to have x-rays done , and have a gun show up on them .

[joe817]

wouldn't it be great to have x-rays done , and have a gun show up on them .

It would put a new meaning to 'failure to feed.'

[davlanders]

I believe Parkland is now posted 30.06. Who wants to touch that one? :)

[stevie_d_64]

Never had a problem...My Doctor is my nephew-in-law, and I just hooked my dentist up with a seller of a NIB Glock 23...

Matter of fact I had some bad news yesterday...My dentist told me that I had to have a tooth extration which is scheduled at 10am today...He asked me if I wanted a local or a sedated procedure...He recommended a sedated procedure...I bet him if he could knock me out, I'd pay for the whole thing...If he couldn't knock me out, then he'd pay for it all...He said "deal!", I feel I may lose this bet...

BTW, ElGato has some business coming his way soon...

We'll see how it goes...Either way, this next visit will be without the "Sledgehammer"...As I have to have a ride back to the house today...

But any other time, as much as I like to remain anonymous and low-key about my "capability" I just don't see the need to disarm, just for this situation...