Not happy with the downtown Austin Hilton

[MBGuy]

Remember, if you're traveling, 46.02 does not apply. You can legally carry anywhere except the places prohibited in PC 46.03.

- Jim

Again, we would get to the definition of "traveling". But I would think that 46.02(b)(2) "on his own premises or premises under his control" coupled with the MPA exceptions allowing you to carry between your residence and car would invalidate the posting on a hotel for all intents and purposes, for any guests of the hotel who are actually staying in the hotel, CHL or not. So my wife, for example, who doesn't have a CHL, can CC from the car up to our hotel room and back again, right past the sign, by a precise reading of the law, no?

If you are there utilizing a conference room for some meeting (which appears to be the case) or just to visit the restaurant etc., then MPA + 46.02 exceptions will not help and I would think the 30.06 sign would be in force.

I would think you are correct. So we have two ways in which the hotel's 30.06 is not binding if you're staying the night.

Also, the way I see the wording, you can even OC while traveling, as 46.02 is not applicable to those traveling so the exception afforded by the CHL is not applicable. Technically in this case you can even OC, because you're travelling, from your car to your hotel room. I know that's not advisable, but would someone show me the sequence in the TPC where that's not allowed? I'm not trying to be knuckleheaded, but I don't see it.

[seamusTX]

You are correct about open carrying under the travel exception. Of course, you would draw unwanted attention.

Texas law never had a distinction between open and concealed carry until the CHL law passed.

(That is in contrast where unlicensed open carry has always been legal (though currently frowned upon) but concealed carry was made illegal. Some of those laws precede the existence of the United States.)

As you can see on the first page of this thread, I don't agree that a hotel room is premises that you control. We'll never know for sure until it is defined by case law.

I've read many police reports where handguns were confiscated from people in hotel rooms, but it was always in connection with some other illegal activity.

- Jim

[mr.72]

I've read many police reports where handguns were confiscated from people in hotel rooms, but it was always in connection with some other illegal activity.

Jim, the same is likely true of people's homes, right?

The restrictions you point out about being in control of a hotel room are little different than those you would be subject to if you were renting a permanent residence. I can't use a camp stove or modify an apartment I rent either, so does a 30.06 sign or other restriction keep me from keeping a gun there? I have to let the landlord in under certain circumstances, just as the hotel maintenance and management must be let into your room. I think renting a hotel room is little different from renting an apartment, house, or a business lease. Different, maybe, but little different.

Suffice to say the PC is ambiguous enough to make all of this go either way in court, as you astutely point out. I am not going to stay in the Hilton in Austin or anywhere else if I have any choice in the matter on principle alone. But I pretty brazenly carry a gun (multiple guns, often) when traveling in the state of TX to hotel rooms with little fear of legitimate prosecution. Am I making a mistake?

I think we should all write letters to the Hilton hotels to let them know we are not going to stay at their hotels because of this policy.

[seamusTX]

I've read many police reports where handguns were confiscated from people in hotel rooms, but it was always in connection with some other illegal activity.

Jim, the same is likely true of people's homes, right?

Yes, I guess that point it irrelevant.

The restrictions you point out about being in control of a hotel room are little different than those you would be subject to if you were renting a permanent residence.

There is a very significant difference: When you are renting an apartment, legal process is required to evict you. When you rent a hotel room, you can be tossed out at the discretion of the manager. They do it all the time with people who are noisy or rowdy.

But I pretty brazenly carry a gun ... when traveling in the state of TX to hotel rooms with little fear of legitimate prosecution. Am I making a mistake?

No. How would you be making a mistake? You can carry under the authority of your CHL or the traveling exception.

I think we should all write letters to the Hilton hotels to let them know we are not going to stay at their hotels because of this policy.

I'm sure that a sufficient number of letters would at least cause them to reconsider.

BTW, all Hilton hotels are not owned by the same company. Many are franchises. I don't know to find out which is which except by asking the hotel management.

- Jim

[MBGuy]

For some reason this "traveling" thing is really enticing to me....

Two questions:

1. If you have a CHL, does that nullify being able to OC while traveling? Let's say, while going up to the hotel room, or at a gas station?

2. My daily commute takes me through several counties (From Austin Co. through Fort Bend Co. through Waller Co. to Harris Co.). I'm traveling!! (I know, since there isn't an overnight stay, that 's not traveling.)

(Sorry for the hijack)

[seamusTX]

1. If you open-carry based on the traveling exception, you will probably be charged with failure to conceal by a CHL holder. The CHL law has never been reconciled with pre-existing law.

If you try it, let us know how it works out.

2. Routine commuting is not traveling, even if you cross multiple county lines. That's based on case law (I don't have citation).

- Jim

[MBGuy]

1. If you open-carry based on the traveling exception, you will probably be charged with failure to conceal by a CHL holder. The CHL law has never been reconciled with pre-existing law.

If you try it, let us know how it works out.

2. Routine commuting is not traveling, even if you cross multiple county lines. That's based on case law (I don't have citation).

- Jim

I figured.........but one can dream....

Thanks for entertaining the thoughts enough to reply though Jim...

[mr.72]

Thanks for entertaining the thoughts enough to reply though Jim...

Jim's thoughts are always entertaining :) Not to mention, quite informative.

[seamusTX]

Thanks, guys.

- Jim

[austin-tatious]

There have been other threads on this hotel as well as the Hilton chain. I'm sorry that they still have the sign at the main entrance. For example, see
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... on#p262223
and
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... lit=hilton.

[PUCKER]

Just FYI - had lunch at Copeland's today, it's located in the Southlake Hilton (Town Square), no 30.06 posting at this particular Hilton, at least on the front doors, and I did look quite closely.

I was in Houston earlier this year, stayed at the downtown Hilton (Hilton Americas?), the one that connects to the George R. Brown. Didn't notice the 30.06 postings until the tail end of the trip. They were VERY difficult to discern, here's a pic of the one at the entrance from the skyway from the George R. Brown:

[Purplehood]

I would think that that particular 30.06 sign is just as legal as the undersized ones you find at AMC Theaters. No contrasting letters. I couldn't even clearly read what it said...

[PUCKER]

AND...it was BEHIND a trash can!! AND...the letters were essentially the same color as the column behind the glass/letters.

[Wisewr]

I know that there are a few Hilton Hotels listed on http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but if these are not, please go register them for the others out there.

[TxCommish]

I got this in my inbox today;

Dear Mr. ********,

We have received your comments regarding our hotel in Guest Assistance and forward onto the correct department. We want you as our loyal guest and appreciate you bringing this to our attention.

Best regards,
Loretta Dunn
Guest Assistance Specialist
Hilton Hotels Corporation
Carrollton Tx, 75006



Also, I noticed the recent post by Pucker with the photo of a similar sign. This is exactly what they looked like. Veeeery hard to see. Also, here's a question for y'all. There were actually two signs. One on the window to the left of the door, another on the window to the right of the door. The one on the left was a correctly worded, sized, etc. sign in English. The sign in the right window was a correctly worded, sized, etc. sign (I assume) in Spanish. So, my question. Since the sign on the left window in English does not also contain Spanish wording on the same sign, is it a legal 30.06?