Parking lot incident

[age_ranger]

I had to go in to the VA Hospital today and was about to disarm before going in when there was a knock at my window. Oh joy, a man dressed as a female prostitute flashing me his flat chest. I thought "At least if I get sick, I'm at the hospital already." I cracked the window and told him to get lost. I thought he had left and then there was a loud rap on my window. The he was asking for money or if he could help me out. I was getting a bit aggrevated and told him to leave me alone as I yelled through the glass. He then tried to open my door and kept knocking. I pulled up my shirt and began to reach for my pistol. He saw my movement and backed off and left. I tried to call the police but my cell phone had died. I thought about telling the VA security but I let it go since the guy left.


Critique:

I feel I made a number of mistakes today and could use some input. I think I made my weapon/vehicle a target for theft although I'm not sure he really saw my pistol. I was very apprehensive about leaving the pistol in the car after that. By not reporting the incident I think I opened myself up for trouble and am relieved nothing further happened.

Question:

I am injured and there's no way I can retreat. (fractured ankle) Were my actions correct? I don't think the use of deadly force was justified since I was pretty safe inside my vehicle. Had he gained access into my vehicle it might have been a different scenario altogether. I'm glad Mom always taught me to keep the doors locked. When confronted with a situation such as this, would it be wise to allow someone to see your weapon or should it be invisible until it goes bang? Bear with me as I'm a fairly new CHL recipient and have alot to learn. Although "flashing" a weapon might be a deterrent to some, it might be provoking to others. I think it may have been best to remain concealed unless absolutely necessary.

Lookng forward to hearing your opinions. Thanks in advance.

[jbirds1210]

I can appreciate your situation....I used to work one building down from the VA hospital and have become pretty familiar with some of the characters in that neighborhood.

In the situation you were in.....I would have just driven to the other side of the parking lot. By the the time you got there....the person would have likely forgotten that you ever existed! I realize that all of this is easier said than done....but thank God you had the doors locked. There is a great deal of parking at this hosptial, it would have been easy for you to park in another area completely out of sight from the original parking space.

BTW, if you start shooting at the locals in the VA parking lot (secure federal facility) the news cameras would get there faster than the police would
Jason

[sparx]

Even though I haven't received my own CHL yet, I would never show or pull my weapon unless I was in immediate need of using it against a dangerous or harmful threat. There have been too many instances of GGs getting in trouble for doing so, some of which had their CHLs revoked for their action. So, until we get an open carry law passed I would keep it concealed until I was drawing it to use against such a threat.

Not knowing your location, or the particular VA hospital you were visiting, I would also consider jbirds' suggestion of moving your car to a different area in the parking lot. If it's the VA hospital in Dallas, then that would have been a good option no doubt. Don't forget that driving your car very slowly can also be very effective in getting someone on foot that's very persistent out of the way (unless they lay down in front of it), but then again even that can become a fine line between getting away from that person and assault with a deadly weapon if you're not careful.

Also, even though your cell phone wasn't working at the time, if you go through the motions like you're actually having a conversation with the police, you may have been able to fake the other person out enough to make them leave the area if they suspect (overheard) that the police were already in the area and would be there in less than a minute. Start describing the character in detail and they'll usually tuck tail and leave quickly.

With regards to leaving your pistol in the car after having a nut case see you with it, there's always that possibility of theft. If you don't have a car safe, or at least a trunk that can't be easily opened from inside the car (push button or lever is locked, or located inside a locked glove box), I would have been uneasy until I got back out to my car, too. However, judging by the portrayal of the character that you exposed your weapon to, he probably wouldn't even know that you didn't carry it in with you (believe me, unless you study for the CHL or are involved with the laws due to your profession or some other reason, most people have no idea of the restrictions or permissions involved for CHL holders).

Overall, I'm very glad that you were safe and the jerkette finally left you alone!

[Paladin]

Freaky

I'm a little unsure of all the details, but in a car you might have the chance to drive away. Also defensive spray could come in handy if 'he/she/it' got into your car.

My wife likes to do the 'pull out cell phone make a call option'. Even if you're faking... they'll probably assume you're calling to police.

[Commander]

Although "flashing" a weapon might be a deterrent to some, it might be provoking to others. I think it may have been best to remain concealed unless absolutely necessary.

I'm not the expert here, but "flashing" a weapon is a "no-no" and not recommended at all. Never pull your weapon unless you intend to use it under legally justified circumstances. "Flashing" will get you trouble and maybe arrested.

[RedRaider]

I think it may have been best to remain concealed unless absolutely necessary.

You answered your own question with this statement.

Someone mentioned driving off and parking elsewhere, that would probably have been your best immediate option.

Good job of keeping your doors locked, that probably kept the situation from really escalating.

[seamusTX]

In a case where you can't drive away, leaning on the horn is another way to get attention and perhaps cause a pest to leave. In cars that have alarm systems, you can usually use the remote control to set off the alarm.

Crooks hate noise and lights.

I don't know about the VA hospital, but more public parking lots have continuous security patrols than not these days. Have you ever tried necking in one?

- Jim

[JB3]

I think Paladin hit it on the head here. From all I've read and talked to a few DPS troopers, the FIVE POINT Three Fox spray will drop someone almost immediately, and definitely change their attitude. It takes the risk of having to draw your weapon and open yourself up to all the terrible things that can happen to you. My wife carries the 2 oz flip top and I just ordered a 2oz cop top for myself. The more defensive options you give yourself, the better your decisions will be. Glad it turned out good for you . John

[robert_de_niro]

Man I wish we had open carry in Texas...

[age_ranger]

Sounds like I did OK. After thinking about it, I'm sure he didn't see my pistol but my actions definitely could have been read as "I'm drawing a weapon." I did buy an ASP defender....10% OC. Although I carry a knife, I need a less lethal means of self defense as well. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip. Great advice all around.

As for open carry, It's a good deterrent, but after trying i out in Az on my way through on vacation, It made me more nervous that feeling safe. I guess if I had a better belt holster (I have all IWB) or a full retention type, I might have felt more at ease. I just didn't like people knowing I was carrying. Thanks everyone for your inputs.

[longtooth]

Several yrs ago I started w/ my Mother on no-shoot personal defense situations. At 75 (now) she is an excellent shot for her age but there are far more incidents like you stated than those that go sour to the point of gunfire. Now there are 3 of us at the range that work on no shoot situations on a regular basis. This includes a lot of hollering. We get some strange looks. Outdoor range so we can do this.
We actually take the things others have experienced or newspaper articles & train from there. You did well. Consider letting this incident modify your training to address the less that lethal as well as the lethal. You can draw & fire your weapon from cover in probably 3.5 sec or so. How fast can you get to your pepper. Mom actually beat the socks off me here. When we started we all found that it took well over twice as long to get to pepper than gun. We had a hard time learning to deploy it. Now we even take the batteries out of cell phones & call the incident in. Be surprised how clumsey we were to start with getting them out & getting the 911 punched. We knew we were missing the #s some.
This less than lethal training has reemphasized the truth that you will be reduced to your daily level of CONSTANT training. You will not only DO what you have trained to do, but you will say what you have trained yourself to say.
We have now talked about adding the officer interview to the shoot incidents. This will give us the practice of IMMEDIATELY saying "I don't want to make a statement until I have talked w/ my lawyer."
This has been as valuable as the shoot no shoot training.
DWS our session is what triggered the next step to the LEO interview. Thank you for that day & the fun.

[John]

I would have Shouted loudly and firmly to back off. "Stop!" "What do you want!" "Get Out of Here!". Even though the cell is dead, start dialing 911 where he can see you. Sorry to hear about your ankle, age. I would have been concerned about leaving my pistol in the car too. Maybe would have moved the car.

[longtooth]

Good job John.

[age_ranger]

More than ever, I think I see the need to practice more with less lethal means of self defense. In my entire life I can only think of 3 or 4 incidents where a firearm may have come into play. Half those were in the military. I can think of dozens where OC would have been great. Might have saved me a few black eyes too. I've added OC to my daily carry gear. Makes perfect sense.

[Venus Pax]

My main problem with pepper spray/ OC, is that you need to know which way the wind is blowing and often don't have time to test it before deploying.
Also, I have asthma. It would probably do more harm to me than to the BG, especially if BG were on dope.
I'm very watchful when I'm out and about. I keep my gun handy too.

I don't like leaving my gun in my car either. One thing that burns my britches more than anything are the off limits places. I figure that if I've gone through the hoops to get a CHL, then anyone can rest assured that I'm a good citizen. To me, leaving a gun in a car makes it accessible to thieves, who aren't the group I want to arm. (Even if they aren't up to date on CHL laws, they still break into vehicles at random.)