Would it have been justified?

[dwhitley]

Yesterday I was eating at Wendy's and my alarm to my truck went off, I have a notification alarm that beeps the remote when its set off. So I went outside to see and there was a man in my truck trying to steal my Navigation-Radio. I did pull my gun and yelled for him to step away from the truck he looked at me and then ran off and got into another car and they drove off. At one point I was ready to pull the trigger, but I just felt like if he would just lay on the ground until the cops came I would be good. I mean taking a life over a radio I just could not justify though I have always said I would shoot them it just did not feel right. I think most of all it was the legal side would I be justified. The cop that came to do the report said I should have shot him, but he was young and seemed just eager to take a bad guy off the streets. Tell me what you all would have done shoot or not? Would it have been justified? Thanks David

[seamusTX]

What time was it?

- Jim

[dwhitley]

11AM lunch time...

[Tireshred]

You might as well yell "Run", because yelling "Stop or I'll shoot" never works . I give you kudos for having the alarm, for stopping the BG and for not getting hurt. I had one of those alarms on my wife's Vette a few years ago and it went off in the middle of the night, I grabbed a gun and went to investigate and saw a cat on the roof (no garage at the time). My heart was racing so hard I don't know what I would've done if there was a BG trying to get it. I couldn't tell you what I would have done in your situation, unless my life or someone else's was in danger, I don't know the answer.

[seamusTX]

Day time.

Stealing from an unoccupied vehicle (or stealing the whole vehicle) is theft. The legislature has decided that preventing theft in the day time is not a justification for the use of deadly force, so no

Most thieves dislike commotion and the news that 911 has been called. As in your case, they flee.

It must have been a tough judgment call with the adrenaline pumping. I'm glad it turned out more or less OK.

Was your vehicle damaged?

- Jim

[dwhitley]

Thanks for the info it really makes me feel like I made the right choice. I was not really that nervous it was more like I am pointing a gun at this guy he really did not seem worried his eyes were opened wide, but then he just ran away.... I was about 10 ft from him now he had a big screw driver in his hand had he started coming towards me with that in a way that seemed hostile yes I would have shot him. But to shoot for a radio not sure that is the answer. Yes I had to have the key hole $250 replaced and the naviagation bracket $25 had to be replaces did it all hours after the deal. The cop told me if he came out and saw that he would have shot and asked later that I had a right to protect my proptery they were cool though never asked for my gun as I put it back on my person after he ran.

[seamusTX]

IMHO, the police officer was irresponsible to say that you should have shot. Many people have been prosecuted for shooting at someone who was not an immediate threat to life or health.

The police officer's opinion ultimately would not matter. It would be the district attorney, possibly feeling pressure from public outrage over your "vigilante shooting of a misguided youth from a broken home," and a grand jury of wild cards.

If you were in Harris County, the DA there is, shall we say, not the greatest supporter of the right to keep and bear arms.

Harold fish is one prominent example of how wrong things can go.

The honest citizen really can't win in these situations. Even if you were completely justified in blowing the crook to kingdom come, you have to wait months for a grand jury decision and probably have your vehicle impounded for the same length of time.

- Jim

[txmatt]

Glad you came out ok and the damage wasn't worse than it was. You made the right call. I would imagine that most cops are more sympathetic than Houston DAs.

Edit: Jim beat me to it

[Abraham]

dwhitley,

You did the right thing.

[dicion]

As Jim said, preventing simple theft during the daytime does not justify lethal force.

There's some argument/dissenting opinions on this, especially theft from a vehicle, due to vehicles being included in parts of the Castle doctrine laws included elsewhere, and obviously walking up to your home in the middle of the day, even unoccupied, to find someone inside it robbing you can be justified deadly force. But, In this instance, I agree with Jim.

Now, if, while the car was speeding off, it had veered towards you, that changes the situation, as a moving vehicle can be considered a 'deadly weapon'
(Moving vehicles kill, like, eleventy billion more people then guns do every year)

Remember to Aim high when shooting through a wind shield from the outside, and to aim Low when shooting through one from the inside. Smaller calibres are affected more then larger ones.
Don't listen to what the movies show, Car doors & windows do not stop bullets, not even 9mm.

Or, if the thief had reached for something consistent with the draw of a weapon, it could also have been justified. Hope they have cameras in the parking lot for this defence though.

[USA1]

IMO , you can always replace "stuff" , but you cant replace your life.
in the heat of the moment , its understandable to become angry at some punk
for taking or trying to take what you work hard for.

i probably would have reacted the same way...try to hold them there for the cops.
i would not have fired unless he produced a weapon and i feared for my life.

usually when cops encounter the BG ,they scream "get on the ground "
or "let me see your hands "

this is how i think i would react if put in to your situation.
maybe the BG would think i was a cop and comply .
but if he runs , then at least you stopped a crime and put a little fear in him .

any way be careful out there ..this kind of thing is happening all around us.

[dewayneward]

First, thank you for making this post. I like to hear (and send to my other CHL pro/against buddies) these events. As you see other scenarios, it makes you think "what would I do".

I think you handled it perfectly. Hopefully that kid decides to turn his life around after that moment. The thing that concerns me was the original poster's comment about not appearing worried/concerned.

I remember when I was a kid, I accidentally drove down a private road (a serious accidentally not a kid version of accident) and the owner (I assume) got out of his car and told me to turn around. I got out and started acting tough and explaining to him exactly what I was going to do if he didnt move his car off the one way road. That was when I saw a flashlight and a gun. I dont recall what the guy said, but I was spread eagled on the hood of my car pleading with the guy not to shoot me. My friend in the car had saucer sized eyes looking at me and the guy with the gun.

I just cant imagine ANYONE not soiling themselves when looking down the barrel of a gun (possibly if it was a REAL small gun or something). Did it look like the guy was mulling over whether to do something or was it like "yea, whatever, I get a gun pulled on me every Tuesday, twice on Sunday".

The guy at a gas station that was "asking" me for money had a "mulling it over" look when I told him that I cant help him. Thankfully, he decided to leave.

Anyway, think you did a great job in handling yourself.

[seamusTX]

I just cant imagine ANYONE not soiling themselves when looking down the barrel of a gun ...

Some people can do it without flinching or hesitating. You can find countless stories of people who charged cops, sometimes multiple cops, when any rational person would have known he would be shot.

I can't get inside their heads, either; but there are plenty of them out there.

There are also thieves who literally think they own what they're stealing, and they will kill to keep it.

- Jim

[dwhitley]

I really dont think he was worried at all.... Almost like you will not shoot me attitude... And just so you know he was in his mid 20's I would say not a teenager. Thanks for the feedback it really is something I need to digest that is for sure.

[CodeJockey]

Isn't there a potential problem with the threat of deadly force here though?