People who really need more training

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Pistol storm 40
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Re: People who really need more training

#31

Post by Pistol storm 40 »

frazzled wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
dac1842 wrote:I know many on here disagree with what I am about to say. But I firmly believe, based on me talking to many other license holders about how often they practice, tells me that the vast majority dont go back to the range after getting their license.
I go to the range at least once per month. I do this for my peace of mind that my weapons function as intended, also to teach my 16 year old how to handle firearms (He has been shooting since 10) and because I really enjoy it.

I agree many license holders need lots more practice. In my CHL class we had two women in the class that brought the weapon to the class still in the box. Both had semi autos and had no clue how to load the magazines, how to insert the mags into the weapon or how to drop the mag once all the rounds were expended. I wish the CHL instructors would make each student demonstrate the student knows how to load, unload, field strip and make a weapon safe for inspection before allowing a student to go through the class.
FWIW, :iagree: . A demonstrated modicum of proficiency in weapon handling should be a requirement for class AND range passage.
:iagree:
+1 :iagree: However I do believe that the CHL instructors may disagree. They are not there to teach the basics of gun safety. I too would like to see some type of safety verification on handling a weapon. I remember before I even handled a gun many many years ago I went to a gun safety class when I was 16. (My dad insisted) Still today I use and think of those methods I learned over 30 years ago whenever a weapon is in my hands...ya I know I am old!!! :mad5
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roberts
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Re: People who really need more training

#32

Post by roberts »

Oldgringo wrote:Another approach might be the age old practice of "shunning". When she shows up with her loaded gun and self, everyone leave the vicinity. If she has any sense or concern, she'll ask why the "cold shoulder". If she doesn't respond to the replies and suggestions, disinvite her to any other functions where guns are in use.
For our own safety I would keep myself and my family away from someone who behaves reckless with a gun. A car too.
THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT ABOUT DUCK HUNTING
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WildBill
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Re: People who really need more training

#33

Post by WildBill »

By law, Texas CHL instructors have a certain amount of information that they are required to teach in a certain amount of time. The class requires about 11 hours of your time and around $125 of your money. This doesn't include the $140 fee for issuing your CHL.

How many of you would like to be required to take a another class [time/$$$] and present a "Certificate of Handgun Safety Training" to your CHL instructor before you can take the CHL class? :rules:

Some states, such as California, require this. Have you ever checked the number of CCWs issued in California compared with Texas?

I understand everybody's concerns. That is why I always advise people to get training before and after CHL training. Training about firearms safety, marksmanship, hunting and laws are invaluable knowledge for everyone who owns and handles firearms. IMO, obtaining your CHL is your license to start learning about self defense. It should not be the end to your education. But, this is a personal choice that can not be forced upon everyone. With freedoms come responsiblities. :tiphat:
Last edited by WildBill on Wed May 06, 2009 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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boomerang
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Re: People who really need more training

#34

Post by boomerang »

WildBill wrote:How many of you would like to be required to take a another class [time/$$$] and present a "Certificate of Handgun Safety Training" to your CHL instructor before you can take the CHL class? :rules:
I used to think that was the purpose of the shooting test. To demonstrate profiency.

Then I started hearing stories about instructors "helping" students pass the test.
"Ees gun! Ees not safe!"

dicion
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Re: People who really need more training

#35

Post by dicion »

I don't see why thats a problem, because, of course, there will be an instructor or other knowledgeable person nearby when the time comes to need to use their concealed weapon to protect themselves or someone else...

... oh wait.

"Hold on Mr BG, I can't remember how to clear a misfeed..."
With freedoms come responsiblities.
I like the way Uncle Ben put it better..... ;-)
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E10
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Re: People who really need more training

#36

Post by E10 »

My CHL instructor discussed the safety rules AT LENGTH, more than once. His criteria for passing the course included safe handling of the firearm, as well as passing written test and shooting scores. He's a university pistol and rifle team coach, with LE experience as well, which may explain his emphasis on safety. I've handled firearms all my life, spent a career in the Army, so all this was old hat to me, but I sat through it, nodding my head and agreeing with everything he said, even though I've heard it a million times. If any instructors aren't doing the same, they're doing their students a disservice, regardless of the state-imposed curriculum. Once you get 'em in class, they're a captive audience - spend an extra hour on safety. You'll be doing us all a favor.

I'm probably preachin' to the choir, but I'll say it anyway: Everybody get out to the range. You don't have to shoot a lot, but do it often. You'll be more comfortable carrying your pistol, and more confident and capable should the day come that you have to use it.

wcb
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Re: People who really need more training

#37

Post by wcb »

Yes, the testing should be a little tougher.
We had a girl in my class that showed up with a full size .40 and had never shot it. Several of us showed her how to load the mag and gave some basic gun safety during breaks. When it came time for her shooting proficiency test, she shot the floor and targets on both sides of hers. The range officer stopped several times to go down range and circle the mis-shots on others targets... He should have taken her out then but didn't.
Not only did she fail the shooting, but failed the written test also.
By no means am I picking on women as several inexperienced women passed with flying colors.
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TexasComputerDude
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Re: People who really need more training

#38

Post by TexasComputerDude »

how do you fail the written test? that thing was easy.
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Bunkins
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Re: People who really need more training

#39

Post by Bunkins »

I would have no problem at all showing a certificate for gun safety. I do it all the time with a hunter's safety card.. Further more I too think that the CHL course should require you to pass a general safety course, and ensure you know how to operate the firearm you intend to use.. I see nothing wrong with that.. For the fact that people are not incapable of learning these skills, so your not singling anyone out telling them they cant have a firearm, they just cant take the course until they know how to safely handle a firearm.. It's no different than a hunter education course.. Thats not to say it will change the way people handle firearms after the fact, many hunters including myself have stories that would scare ya about people you run across in the middle of no where..

As CHL holders, we all know the responsibilities that come with it.. Is it to much to ask that everyone knows how to properly handle a firearm? I sure dont think so.
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Purplehood
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Re: People who really need more training

#40

Post by Purplehood »

I like the idea of a Hunter Safety course as a prerequisite, but I can imagine the screaming that would ensue. The onus of additional regulation just leaves a bad-taste in many peoples mouthes.

Of course, I would like to see really old or infirm people show some degree of proficiency in driving also. I guess you can't have it all.
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dac1842
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Re: People who really need more training

#41

Post by dac1842 »

I don't see anything wrong with requiring a safety course. You are depending on this weapon you have chosen to protect your life and the lives of others. We as gun handlers have an obligation to know our weapons and be able to handle them safely and responsibly. IF we cannot do that, if we are unwilling to demonstrate minimum gun handling skills then we have no business carrying a gun.
I have carried a gun since I was 19. ( 50 now). I have never had a accidental discharge. This is due to being safety minded. I will not dare say I never will, cranial rectitis tends to get the best of us at the most inopportune times. But I take the time to know my guns, I carry four different handguns depending on how I am dressing and what I am doing. I know each of them down the last newest spec of dust. I clean them all every two weeks, after shooting they are cleaned prior to anything else in my life occuring.
If you depend on these weapons to protect you, then you should make darn sure you can bet your life on them, because you are.
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Re: People who really need more training

#42

Post by Liberty »

Mandatory courses of any kind sound like an infringement to be.
The only thing more dangerous than the unqualified having access to arms, is restrictions on the people for owning and bearing them.
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Re: People who really need more training

#43

Post by bdickens »

This woman doesn't sound like she needs more training so much as she needs to be committed.
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Re: People who really need more training

#44

Post by dac1842 »

Liberty,
Anyone is allowed to have a weapon to proctect themselves in their own home. I do feel that if you want to carry that weapon outside of the home then i feel a degree of demonstrated proficiency with that weapon is not an infringement. The unqualified person in public with a weapon is more dangerous to everyone. I feel as handgun owners and especially those of us that carry have an obligation to ourselves and everyone else to be proficient with what we carry. I can remember when if someone wanted to be a cop, you applied, were given a badge and gun and told go forth and protect. That would never fly today.
I feel that with rights comes responsibility. Responsible gun owners and those that carry should encourage the need to be proficient. What good is someone with a new Glock or whatever and they dont have a clue how to load, unload, change mags or field strip?
All I have suggested is really simple, As a student comes into a class room, the instructor tells the student to load a mag, change a mag, show where the safety is, if applicable, and can you field strip it, chamber a dummy round, clear the dummy round. If a student can't do that refund the money and tell them to come back when they are familiar with the basic functions of a weapon.
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Liberty
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Re: People who really need more training

#45

Post by Liberty »

dac1842 wrote:Liberty,
Anyone is allowed to have a weapon to proctect themselves in their own home. I do feel that if you want to carry that weapon outside of the home then i feel a degree of demonstrated proficiency with that weapon is not an infringement. The unqualified person in public with a weapon is more dangerous to everyone. I feel as handgun owners and especially those of us that carry have an obligation to ourselves and everyone else to be proficient with what we carry. I can remember when if someone wanted to be a cop, you applied, were given a badge and gun and told go forth and protect. That would never fly today.
I feel that with rights comes responsibility. Responsible gun owners and those that carry should encourage the need to be proficient. What good is someone with a new Glock or whatever and they dont have a clue how to load, unload, change mags or field strip?
All I have suggested is really simple, As a student comes into a class room, the instructor tells the student to load a mag, change a mag, show where the safety is, if applicable, and can you field strip it, chamber a dummy round, clear the dummy round. If a student can't do that refund the money and tell them to come back when they are familiar with the basic functions of a weapon.
I believe that history tends to provide support to the theory, that the more we restrict guns the more dangerous it becomes for every one. It doesn't matter our Constitution doesn't mention gun safety classes, and the ability to field strip a 1911 doesn't make anyone any safer.

My biggest problem with gun safety qualifications though come down to the arbitrariness of some of the requirements.

I know some people that are incapable of racking a handgun. They understand their limitation and will ask a trusted one to do this when required. They understand and obey the 4 rules that is the main thing.

Field stripping is absurd qualification. Most guns require the ability to rack the handgun back and the position of the slide. Various handguns requires manipulation, mechanical strength that some older people just don't have. These rules could have the effect of disarming some of the very folks that need protection the most.

Most instructors would frown on the idea of students whom they don't know bringing their guns into the class room and racking them playing with the safety, and sliding Magazines in and out in a class room full of students. It can be very difficult for the most experienced of students to exercise muzzle control in a crowded class room as suggested.

Instructors do watch their students at the range. Most instructors that I've met don't look forward to getting shot anymore than anyone else. They should pull someone off the line if there is cause, but they should also be willing to be helpful when advise is needed.

All this being said safety is in ongoing process and we should be all aware of it. The older we get and the longer we have been around guns, the more we are likely to get into bad habits and take things for granted, Funny thing is from what I can see most negligent discharges are from those who really should know better.
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