Accidental UCW or carry under MPA?

[austin-tatious]

Scenario: You go out to run some errands and forget to take your wallet which has your CHL, driver's license, etc. with you, but you take your gun. (Maybe you had changed pants and put on your gun but got interrupted before transferring your wallet to the new pair of pants and forgot to finish the job.)

While you are driving around you get pulled over. Is the officer going to know you have a CHL if you cannot show him your driver's license?

If he can know you have a CHL and he asks if you have a gun in the car, can you avoid the UCW charge by saying you are carrying under the Motorist's Protection Act (MPA)?

Or could it go either way depending on who he is?

In court, would you have a successful defense of UCW by using the MPA?

(No, I have not been pulled over without my wallet. And I'm not debating if it's worth the time and expense to avoid the 90 day CHL suspension for the first offense, though I would not mind hearing your opinions on that.)

[boomerang]

The requirement to display your CHL when asked for ID by a peace officer or magistrate is in section 411.205 of the government code.

UCW is in section 46 of the penal code.

[seamusTX]

I'm pretty sure that if you don't have a driver license, the officer can ask your name and address and use that information to look up your DPS record. In that case, he will know that you have a CHL.

What happens after that will depend upon your demeanor, the officer's law-enforcement philosophy, police-force policy, and the DA's instructions.

BTW, many jurisdictions tow your car if you don't have proof of financial responsibility.

- Jim

[shootthesheet]

As a CHL holder we are required to present a CHL and DL. There is no exception...yet...for us to be able to get away with not presenting a CHL and DL. Staple them to your head or whatever but don't forget it.

One way to avoid problems if you forget your CHL and/or DL is to keep a lockable pistol case in your vehicle so you can lock the gun up where it is not accessible to you. I know of no other way to avoid getting charged for unlawful carry.

If you have a passenger that is okay with it then put it under their seat and have them claim it if asked. They can "borrow" your gun even with you in the car. That is my opinion and I am not a lawyer.

[seamusTX]

Put it in the trunk. If it is in the passenger compartment, and the cop wants to bust you, you're going for a ride.

BTW, it's not that hard to avoid being searched. I seem to have done it for over 30 years without really trying.

- Jim

[LaserTex]

If it is in your car, why not put it in the center console. It is not illegal to carry in your car. Am I missing something? The law didn't revert to the old belief of part in the glove box, part in the trunk?

[ClarkLZeuss]

I think they are trying to change the law in relation to this, because there is basically a loophole that allows non-CHLs to carry in their cars, but CHLs don't have the same luxury. The best approach I can think of in this matter is head on over to the Legislative section, find the relevant law and call your Congressman to ask him/her to support it.

But yeah, I often worry about the same thing! I was already pretty OCD checking/double-checking for my wallet whenever I'm out of the house. Now I'm about 5 times as bad!

[Morgan]

I BELIEVE that "loaning" it to your passenger is not kosher. I BELIEVE that I read in the motor-carry laws that the vehicle's controller is the one who has to have the gun. IE, if there are 4 non-CHLs in the car, only the driver gets to have a gun. I could be wrong, I might have mis-remembered that, I didn't go look it up... but I thought that was what the rule is.

[glocklvr]

I forgot my wallet 1 time it wasn't until I tried to pay for some smokes that I realized my mistake and I had my gun on me . Luckily I didn't have any leo contacts or any other reason to show my CHL before I could get back home and get my wallet but it scared me pretty badly and now I keep a photo copy of my DL and CHL next to my insurance card. It's not as good as the origional but it's better than nothing and depending on the LEO it might save my bacon if I forget my wallet again.

[lrb111]

If it is in your car, why not put it in the center console. It is not illegal to carry in your car. Am I missing something? The law didn't revert to the old belief of part in the glove box, part in the trunk?

The center console falls under the "on or about your person". Generally, about your person means anywhere within reach. One has to consider that LEO will think that is anywhere inside the occupied portion of a vehicle. Just as a safe assumption.

[seamusTX]

I think they are trying to change the law in relation to this, because there is basically a loophole that allows non-CHLs to carry in their cars, but CHLs don't have the same luxury.

SB 838 is most likely dead unless some unexpected parliamentary maneuver get it passed.

I BELIEVE that "loaning" it to your passenger is not kosher. I BELIEVE that I read in the motor-carry laws that the vehicle's controller is the one who has to have the gun.

You are mostly right. The law states, "a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control."

This incident illustrates that this law is not a reliable get-out-of-jail card.

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

Am I correct in this scenario, you got pulled over before you got to the store and learned you couldn't consummate your purchase because you left your wallet/money/cards/britches at home?

To paraphrase the AmEx jingle: 'never leave home without your CHL'...either.

[austin-tatious]

Thank you ALL for the ideas. Given the law and given the possibility, though hopefully remote, that UCW would be charged, and IF you notice "I left home without it!" before getting pulled over, I would want to stop and discreetly put it in the trunk. In addition, for the case where you DON'T notice you don't have it before getting stopped (guaranteed by Murphy), you should put a photo copy of both licenses and insurance in a secure location in the trunk. (Personally, I don't keep the proof of insurance in the glove box or console in case the car is lifted and the thief can then know who I am and where I live.)

Does that cover everything?

My favorite solution, however, is to staple the licenses to my head.

[srothstein]

First, I want to point out that you can be arrested for almost anything, even if you are found not guilty later.

In the specific case, I think most officers are now aware that you can carry in your car. There is no loophole in the law that treats a CHL any differently than the non-CHL for this. You would be legal in carrying.

Where you would not be legal is in not producing your DL or CHL for the officer. Not producing the DL is a ticket (class C misdemeanor) that specifically says it is to be dismissed if you show your DL to the magistrate (Transportation Code 521.025). Failure to display a CHL is an offense (if you have the gun on or about your person, whether carrying under the CHL authority or not) listed in the Government Code section 411.205. This law specifically states that this is not a crime the first time you do this, just a civil infraction as grounds for a suspension. If it happens a second time, it is a class B misdemeanor.

So, basically, if you are carrying your weapon in your car and forgot your CHL, you are not committing a crime the first time you are stopped. It is most probable that you would not be arrested but would be reported to DPS the first time. Since I don't think they have the suspension records, it is probable that you would never be arrested on the scene for this, but a warrant might come out later. If you are arrested, you would almost definitely win in court later after spending a nice chunk of change.

So, final advice is to be careful. Keep the CHL and DL together and keep them near the weapon.

[TruckingDeals]

To answer your question...

Yes, the cop will know you have a CHL. I hear it on the scanner all the time.

Just like they now know whether or not you have insurance. They can do this following you down the street. It is called a "rolling 28" in our county.

Better not to mess up.