Non-Commissioned Security Guard and CHL

[para45]

I have been looking into becoming an non-commissioned security guard, and wanted to know if there would be any law not allowing me to carry concealed while on duty. I am fairly sure there is nothing under the CHL penal code however how about under the non-commissioned security guard laws? If any of you can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated.

[carlson1]

Can't carry under the authority of a CHL while on duty as a Security Officer.

[boomerang]

Texas Occupations Code

Sec. 1702.169. FIREARM RESTRICTIONS. A commissioned security officer other than a person acting as a personal protection officer may not carry a firearm unless:
(1) the security officer is:
(A) engaged in the performance of duties as a security officer; or
(B) traveling to or from the place of assignment;
(2) the security officer wears a distinctive uniform indicating that the individual is a security officer; and
(3) the firearm is in plain view.

I don't see an exception for someone with a concealed handgun license. I guess that means you can't carry a concealed bug.

[boomerang]

He said noncommissioned security officer.

On duty security officers must operate by security officer, not CHL, rules. An on-duty officer must be properly certified to carry a handgun or club under those rules.

My Bad.

Sec. 1702.161. SECURITY OFFICER COMMISSION REQUIRED.
(b) An individual employed as a security officer may not knowingly carry a firearm during the course of performing duties as a security officer unless the commission has issued a security officer commission to the individual.

[srothstein]

He said noncommissioned security officer.

On duty security officers must operate by security officer, not CHL, rules. An on-duty officer must be properly certified to carry a handgun or club under those rules.

Interestingly, I am not sure he cannot carry using his CHL IF he is NOT commissioned. I just did a quick search, and I may have missed something, so this is not conclusive. It is clear that to use a gun in the performance of his duties, a security officer must be commissioned. A commissioned officer may not legally carry a concealed weapon, even if he has a CHL, as has been posted.

But, a person may work security without carrying a gun in relation to his duties. To do this, he get registered instead of commissioned with DPS. I find nothing in the law or in teh rules that bars a registered, non-commissioned security officer from carrying a concealed weapon under the authority of his CHL.

Again, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and I checked just the Occupations Code and the Adminsitrative Code, so I may have missed something.

[Captain Matt]

But, a person may work security without carrying a gun in relation to his duties. To do this, he get registered instead of commissioned with DPS. I find nothing in the law or in teh rules that bars a registered, non-commissioned security officer from carrying a concealed weapon under the authority of his CHL.

What about that 1702.161 quote above? It says firearms so it looks like it includes rifles and shotguns too, which are usually legal carry for non-felons who aren't in one of the prohibited places in Texas or fedlaw.

[srothstein]

But, a person may work security without carrying a gun in relation to his duties. To do this, he get registered instead of commissioned with DPS. I find nothing in the law or in teh rules that bars a registered, non-commissioned security officer from carrying a concealed weapon under the authority of his CHL.

What about that 1702.161 quote above? It says firearms so it looks like it includes rifles and shotguns too, which are usually legal carry for non-felons who aren't in one of the prohibited places in Texas or fedlaw.

You know, sometimes I read too much into things and mess up badly. The law is what was quoted and you are correct. When I read the whole section of the law, I misread that part to say carrying it as part of his duties. The rest of the section concerns the requirement to be commissioned to carry a weapon as a security officer. I misread the section on performance of his duties to mean a job requirement to carry, as in being hired to be armed without the commission. This is not what it says and you and Boomerang are correct. A security officer with a CHL must be disarmed while he is on duty.

[Liberty]

It is so strange that Texas makes such an effort to disarm those who could really use CHL protection and are typically bonded and been investigated and cleared. There is even a bill before our legislators now seeking disarm process servers. Anyone who serves divorce or custody papers should have a concealed weapon on them or they have no business being in the business.

Does the thought process go like this?
Gee security folks might be attacked by a bad guy.
IF the Security officer has a gun, he might actually defend himself.
Lets remove from them the right that every other citizen has to not alow him to carry under a CHL.
Yeah that will stop him from defending himself and denying the courts and prison guards job oppotunitys.

[Liberty]

No, I think the process goes something like:

"These guys come in contact with bad guys a lot more than a standard CHL'er would. Therefore, they have more of a chance of using the weapon when it is not actually needed, and messing up do to lack of additional training. If they wish to carry a weapon on the job, they should have additional training requirements."

I don't really have a problem with that myself.

Maybe, but I see it as "These guys come in contact with bad guys a lot more than a standard CHL'er would. Therefore, they have more of a chance of really needing a weapon to protect their lives. So lets deny them that right".

The whole idea of disarming folks because the people they deal with are too dangerous smells of enough irony to choke a hog. Everyone I know including LEOs carry because of the dangerous eople they cpme in contact with. If there were no dangerous people none of us would carry much.

All the same most of us aren't Security officers or process servers so maybe it doesn't matter if we make them go to work work unarmed. Maybe those of us who aren't students shouldn't bother backing campus carry.

[srothstein]

Just to be fair, I think the ban on security officers carrying came well before CHL was adopted in Texas. The way the law is worded, I think they were trying to say that you needed a commission and not just a registration to work as an armed guard, and any guard carrying weapons was considered armed.

I think we might be better off trying to get the law reworded to allow a security guard with a CHL to carry concealed if he is not commissioned than trying to argue about the way the law is now.

As for disarming process servers, we should just fight that. I can not explain their logic.

[Glock 23]

only a Level 4 PPO (personal protection officer) can LEGALLY carry a concealed weapon on duty.

in fact, it has to be concealed. A level 3 commissioned officer has to carry the weapon visibly.
a level 2 non-commissioned officer cannot carry any firearm legally.

would anyone find out if you were carrying it? I doubt it. but from a legal standpoint, you cant carry concealed on duty unless youre a PPO.

[bubba1876]

a level 2 non-commissioned officer cannot carry any firearm legally.

So what's the point?
Basically a "level 2 non-commissioned officer" is just another guy on the street but he's wearing a uniform. He has no law enforcement authority, and no firearm. No wonder they get crap for pay. They can't even defend themselves, much less their employers' property under this law. Actually, under this definition, I am more capable of defending the non-com's property than he is. At least as a CHL civilian, I can carry.

[Liberty]

a level 2 non-commissioned officer cannot carry any firearm legally.

So what's the point?
Basically a "level 2 non-commissioned officer" is just another guy on the street but he's wearing a uniform. He has no law enforcement authority, and no firearm. No wonder they get crap for pay. They can't even defend themselves, much less their employers' property under this law. Actually, under this definition, I am more capable of defending the non-com's property than he is. At least as a CHL civilian, I can carry.

The point is they get to guard oil and chemical plants but they don't have to pay them as much as level 3s .. They can make phone calls and draw fire until the police get there.

The Chinese sent the unskilled, poorly armed and nonworthy soldiers in waves to help run the American soldiers out of ammo before they sent in their better trained and armed troops. I think our legislators hope that the terrorist run out of ammo on the security guards before the police have to get involved.