disarmed by Friendswood PD

[dac1842]

I have posted my thoughts on this subject before and some did not like what I had to say. Doubt you will like it now either. As a former LEO, I have no issues with a police officer asking for my weapon during a stop. He has to put his safety first, He does not know you, yes you have a CHL and have gone through the background checks. But that does not mean you have not had a really bad day and are not going to flip out. Everyone thought Bundy was a nice neighbor until they found bodies in his freezer.

An officer has the right to disarm. If you read the law, the word reasonable is vague and any officer could reasonably argue, you were armed and therefore he felt for his personal safety he needed to disarm you. The times I have been stopped I have always told the officer before I handed him my chl that I am an ex cop, and I am armed and I OFFER to let him disarm me. So far none have done so, and I get stopped lots since part of my current job has me sitting in dark alleys watching other people work.

Just be cause you have a CHL does not mean you get any special treatment. It tells the officer you probably are on the up and up, but it also tells him you have a gun. On the street, someone else with a gun is not always a good thing. You should expect to get disarmed if you get stopped. But try this, in the future as you hand him your CHL be proactive, before hand you are a CHL holder, you are armed and offer to let him disarm you. Odds are he wont. Why? officers make a living reading people and situations, if you are offering all the above before you hand him the CHL and offer to be disarmed he will feel a lot more comfortable with you and you being armed.

[lunchbox]

For no reason should his safety be paramount to my own.
Everything you said about me could be equally as true for him if not more so.
He has the right to disarm me should there be reason to believe I intend myself the officer or others harm. I gave no such indication as I said nothing but handed over my DL. and CHL This whole thing was bull, and I refuse to stand for the abuse of power by an officer of the law.

I have posted my thoughts on this subject before and some did not like what I had to say. Doubt you will like it now either. As a former LEO, I have no issues with a police officer asking for my weapon during a stop. He has to put his safety first, He does not know you, yes you have a CHL and have gone through the background checks. But that does not mean you have not had a really bad day and are not going to flip out. Everyone thought Bundy was a nice neighbor until they found bodies in his freezer.

An officer has the right to disarm. If you read the law, the word reasonable is vague and any officer could reasonably argue, you were armed and therefore he felt for his personal safety he needed to disarm you. The times I have been stopped I have always told the officer before I handed him my chl that I am an ex cop, and I am armed and I OFFER to let him disarm me. So far none have done so, and I get stopped lots since part of my current job has me sitting in dark alleys watching other people work.

Just be cause you have a CHL does not mean you get any special treatment. It tells the officer you probably are on the up and up, but it also tells him you have a gun. On the street, someone else with a gun is not always a good thing. You should expect to get disarmed if you get stopped. But try this, in the future as you hand him your CHL be proactive, before hand you are a CHL holder, you are armed and offer to let him disarm you. Odds are he wont. Why? officers make a living reading people and situations, if you are offering all the above before you hand him the CHL and offer to be disarmed he will feel a lot more comfortable with you and you being armed.

[boomerang]

Situations like this make me think about letting my CHL expire.

Someone can legally carry in their car without a gun license. They have no duty to inform the police they have a gun in the car. Out of sight, out of mind.

Why should I take a class, get fingerprinted, pay the $70 renewal fee, wait for a background check, just so I can be arbitrarily disarmed?

[lunchbox]

Situations like this make me think about letting my CHL expire.

Someone can legally carry in their car without a gun license. They have no duty to inform the police they have a gun in the car. Out of sight, out of mind.

Why should I take a class, get fingerprinted, pay the $70 renewal fee, wait for a background check, just so I can be arbitrarily disarmed?

you hit the nail on the head my friend

[lunchbox]

also keep in mind he stuck my XDM in his butt crack

[flintknapper]

I have posted my thoughts on this subject before and some did not like what I had to say. Doubt you will like it now either. As a former LEO, I have no issues with a police officer asking for my weapon during a stop.

That is your prerogative...and I respect your decision. However, do not require that of the rest of us.

He has to put his safety first, He does not know you, yes you have a CHL and have gone through the background checks. But that does not mean you have not had a really bad day and are not going to flip out. Everyone thought Bundy was a nice neighbor until they found bodies in his freezer.

Sadly, I fear this is (or has been) taught in Academy's all across the nation. Officer safety is now "the only thing that matters". I certainly want officer's to be REASONABLY safe while doing their jobs. But I draw the line when officer safety trumps my Civil Rights, Jeopardizes MY safety, causes me unnecessary inconvenience, etc...
If we are to apply your logic (HIS SAFETY FIRST), then it only makes sense to immediately disarm anyone on the scene (passengers, onlookers, other), call for backup, cuff the person stopped and hold them at gunpoint. I mean...what the heck, no need in taking any chances.

Yes, police work can be dangerous, (more for some than others). But, if you have reached a point in your career that you genuinely feel that a CHL (just having a bad day) poses a significant threat, then I submit it is time to find another occupation.

An officer has the right to disarm. If you read the law, the word reasonable is vague and any officer could reasonably argue, you were armed and therefore he felt for his personal safety he needed to disarm you.

The word reasonable is NOT vague, and I will gladly let a judge or jury make that point... if an officer wants to get especially "hinky" about it.

The times I have been stopped I have always told the officer before I handed him my chl that I am an ex cop, and I am armed and I OFFER to let him disarm me. So far none have done so, and I get stopped lots since part of my current job has me sitting in dark alleys watching other people work.

I am glad that has been your experience...and I hope it continues.

Just be cause you have a CHL does not mean you get any special treatment.

I agree. But...I hope you understand...this should cover both ends of the spectrum. My CHL warrants NEITHER a favorable position or an unfavorable position (fair enough right)?

It tells the officer you probably are on the up and up, but it also tells him you have a gun. On the street, someone else with a gun is not always a good thing.

Nor is it necessarily a bad thing. Unless you are suggesting that the mere presence of a gun makes all situations inherently dangerous, is that what you are implying?

You should expect to get disarmed if you get stopped.

Theres the problem.

But try this, in the future as you hand him your CHL be proactive, before hand you are a CHL holder, you are armed and offer to let him disarm you.

I am surprised to see you suggest this...since apparently you do not feel the law abiding, legally armed citizen really has any say in the matter. Besides, how would the officer know you weren't "having a bad day" and were trying to get the drop on him? Come on folks....CHL's are not the bad guys.

Odds are he wont. Why? officers make a living reading people and situations, if you are offering all the above before you hand him the CHL and offer to be disarmed he will feel a lot more comfortable with you and you being armed.

I did not get my CHL with the idea that I would need to "sooth, secure, or stroke" the officer's feelings...in hopes that he/she will relax and NOT disarm me. I am always, courteous and accommodating to LEO when stopped, and with one exception... have always enjoyed the reciprocal. Some folks have not been as fortunate, and I am beginning to understand why.

[lunchbox]

This is a little off topic but you will see where im going


Today at work I was showing a shotgun to a customer, and there was an officer (off duty but still wearing his badge around his neck) standing next to the man I was talking to. The shotgun was an 870 "POLICE"
The officer was distraught I was going to sell "POLICE EQUIPMENT" to non L.E. personel.
His poor attitude made my blood boil as did the customer I was trying to help with a purchace.
He was of the mind the only L.E. need guns and if you have a gun your a criminal. Yes this guy looked like he was green.
The officer needs to get a lesson on the law or get a job at the mall.

I have posted my thoughts on this subject before and some did not like what I had to say. Doubt you will like it now either. As a former LEO, I have no issues with a police officer asking for my weapon during a stop.

That is your prerogative...and I respect your decision. However, do not require that of the rest of us.

He has to put his safety first, He does not know you, yes you have a CHL and have gone through the background checks. But that does not mean you have not had a really bad day and are not going to flip out. Everyone thought Bundy was a nice neighbor until they found bodies in his freezer.

Sadly, I fear this is (or has been) taught in Academy's all across the nation. Officer safety is now "the only thing that matters". I certainly want officer's to be REASONABLY safe while doing their jobs. But I draw the line when officer safety trumps my Civil Rights, Jeopardizes MY safety, causes me unnecessary inconvenience, etc...
If we are to apply your logic (HIS SAFETY FIRST), then it only makes sense to immediately disarm anyone on the scene (passengers, onlookers, other), call for backup, cuff the person stopped and hold them at gunpoint. I mean...what the heck, no need in taking any chances.

Yes, police work can be dangerous, (more for some than others). But, if you have reached a point in your career that you genuinely feel that a CHL (just having a bad day) poses a significant threat, then I submit it is time to find another occupation.

An officer has the right to disarm. If you read the law, the word reasonable is vague and any officer could reasonably argue, you were armed and therefore he felt for his personal safety he needed to disarm you.

The word reasonable is NOT vague, and I will gladly let a judge or jury make that point... if an officer wants to get especially "hinky" about it.

The times I have been stopped I have always told the officer before I handed him my chl that I am an ex cop, and I am armed and I OFFER to let him disarm me. So far none have done so, and I get stopped lots since part of my current job has me sitting in dark alleys watching other people work.

I am glad that has been your experience...and I hope it continues.

Just be cause you have a CHL does not mean you get any special treatment.

I agree. But...I hope you understand...this should cover both ends of the spectrum. My CHL warrants NEITHER a favorable position or an unfavorable position (fair enough right)?

It tells the officer you probably are on the up and up, but it also tells him you have a gun. On the street, someone else with a gun is not always a good thing.

Nor is it necessarily a bad thing. Unless you are suggesting that the mere presence of a gun makes all situations inherently dangerous, is that what you are implying?

You should expect to get disarmed if you get stopped.

Theres the problem.

But try this, in the future as you hand him your CHL be proactive, before hand you are a CHL holder, you are armed and offer to let him disarm you.

I am surprised to see you suggest this...since apparently you do not feel the law abiding, legally armed citizen really has any say in the matter. Besides, how would the officer know you weren't "having a bad day" and were trying to get the drop on him? Come on folks....CHL's are not the bad guys.

Odds are he wont. Why? officers make a living reading people and situations, if you are offering all the above before you hand him the CHL and offer to be disarmed he will feel a lot more comfortable with you and you being armed.

I did not get my CHL with the idea that I would need to "sooth, secure, or stroke" the officer's feelings...in hopes that he/she will relax and NOT disarm me. I am always, courteous and accommodating to LEO when stopped, and with one exception... have always enjoyed the reciprocal. Some folks have not been as fortunate, and I am beginning to understand why.

[dihappy]

I have posted my thoughts on this subject before and some did not like what I had to say. Doubt you will like it now either. As a former LEO, I have no issues with a police officer asking for my weapon during a stop. He has to put his safety first, He does not know you, yes you have a CHL and have gone through the background checks. But that does not mean you have not had a really bad day and are not going to flip out.

With that rationale, it should be easy to understand why some people are afraid of cops.

Cops are human and i dont know them either, what if the officer had a bad day? Is he/she some superhuman, genetically engineered perfect thing that is incapable of doing anything wrong?

I should be allowed to disarm a cop if i want to, for my safety of course.

[nitrogen]

Yeah, this attitude drives me nuts. Luckelly, once I left California for Phoenix, and left California again for Texas, I saw much better attitudes.

I guess I take the whole police thing at 180˚ from a lot of people. Admittedly, this probably won't go over well, but, I do think that the police are really around for MY benefit; mine, my neighborhoods, my towns, city, state, etc.

SERVICE being the key word; and I think the few officers that forget that do so to the discredit of all the others that remember that.

That's why I get so bent out of shape (and usually try and stay out of these types of threads) because, to put it bluntly, "Hey, buddy, you're here for MY benefit, NOT YOURS."

MY benefit (and the rest of societys) sometimes means pulling me over and citing me when I'm speeding, or have a headlight out. It doesn't mean disarming me when there's no reason to.

Not that I don't want those serving us in our community to be safe; I do, but I don't want the precident leading to being handcuffed and manhandled for every LEO contact either. There's a happy medium that I think we're on the wrong side of, personally.

(puts on nomex underwear)

[KD5NRH]

It's probably a pretty staggering statistic on how many major busts are brought about by seemingly insignificant moving violations.

If they had a little box on the dash that would squeal and wake them up when someone jaywalks, then we'd see staggering numbers of major busts resulting from jaywalking stops.

[dac1842]

I told ya some would not like it! LOL. I respect your opinion, and am sure you do mine. Being an ex cop I understand the way some of them think and have no issue being disarmed. Yes i do think that his safety is paramount to mine. I do not worry about him, he has been through background checks that makes ours look like nothing. I know there are bad cops like there are bad everything. But I can relate to how they feel. The ones that I have talked to about this very subject say the same thing. The decision to disarm varies from stop to stop.
Now for the other issues raised, I agree that it is not right that we that have CHL's, have paid anywhere from $95 to $150 for a class, $140 for the license itself have a different set of rules than the person that carries under the new law that allows carry in the vehicle. I am also against open carry for the same reasons and many others.

I am also all for unrestricted carry. I should be allowed to carry anywhere, anytime, that includes employer placed restrictions, which my employer has. The only restriction on me should be placed on all LEO as well. you cannot carry off duty in a bar. I am 100% against being under the influence while armed, the effects of alcohol effect people, that badge the off duty cop is carrying in the bar does not absorb the alcohol.

Now for the CHL badge issue... you must be kidding me. I hate hypotheticals but here goes. You walk into a stop and rob, and observe a robbery in progress, your weapon is concealed and you do NOT have a badge displayed. At this time you have not alarmed anyone and the element of surprise if you choose to draw your weapon is sill on your side.

Now the same scenario, but now your badge is displayed, the do bad just sees a badge, he does not have a bionic eye to see that it says CHL Holder, He is thinking cop,( which most that carry a chl badge want folks to think), and now instead of just telling you to lie on the floor and shut up, he sees you as an osbtacle to his freedom. SO now you have just created a possible hostage situation, or worse yet a shooting and you are probably the first target.

I know that most folks that buy the badge do so thinking if a cop sees the badge it will for at least a minute make him think and buy you some time to identify yourself especially in a tense situation. That might work for a minute, then when he sees the badge, well to say you will get a tongue lashing would be down playing the situation, at minimum he is going to laugh his butt off, and you will be the subject off roll call jokes for a long time to come.
Be safe, have a Merry Christmas.

[Liberty]

I told ya some would not like it! LOL. I respect your opinion, and am sure you do mine. Being an ex cop I understand the way some of them think and have no issue being disarmed. Yes i do think that his safety is paramount to mine. I do not worry about him, he has been through background checks that makes ours look like nothing. I know there are bad cops like there are bad everything. But I can relate to how they feel. The ones that I have talked to about this very subject say the same thing. The decision to disarm varies from stop to stop.

I believe that statistically we Texas CHL holders are less likely to get into trouble than a Texas Peace officer. Which I con cider remarkable because of issues like the blue brotherhood and how so many officer will be reluctantant to give another even officer a traffic ticket. In fairness a lot of this probably has to do with demographics. CHL holders are likely to be older. An older guy with a clean record is less likely to get into trouble than a young fella with a clean record. I thin k it does say a lot for Texas Law enforcemnt and the CHL program that these incidents of disarming seem to be fairly rare , and less common than it was just a few years ago.

[lunchbox]

The Chief was in the store but I didn't get a chance to talk to him as we were swamped.

[lunchbox]

I am sending an E-mail to the chief
this is its contents



Good day to you Chief Wieners. Though we have met you do not know me. MY name is J.T. Vinson. we have met at prodefense.(I work there im the big guy with a beard). I have an issue I wanted to bring to your attention, and rather than take up your time with a formal complaint, or bothering you on the phone, I thought an E-mail would be better so you can respond at your leisure.

About a week ago I was stopped but one of your officers. I took of my helmet and gloves and handed over my DL and CHL without a word.
In a way that is hard to describe his demeanor changes. He asked if I was carrying. I said yes. The officer then proceeded to my right side and said where. my response was 4 o'clock. When I moved my jacket for him to see my XDM was swiftly yanked from its holster and shoved inside his pants at the 6 o'clock position. Just as he had done so he headed back to his car and said I am going to keep this with me for now. I was always told the side of the road is not the place to argue. Thus I have brought this to you. I am assured by Mr Cotton that you are indeed a supporter of the CHL program and you a good man.
I guess what I want out of this is better education for the patrolman under you. There was no cause for my being dissarmed, and I did not apreciate my firearm being violated like it was.


For your reading if you should chose this subject is being discussed on Mr Cottons forum.
I am providing the link for you its a good read.

[stevie_d_64]

This has certainly turned into a very spirited discussion...One for the archives...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I saw someone mention that they would accept allowing their CHL to expire just so they could carry their firearm in a vehicle, and not be required by law to inform a Law Enforcement officer of this fact...

I heard a lawyer we all know here state that that might be just fine, but lets say you actually have to defend yourself and you step out of your vehicle to do so...Oops...There's where the fuzzy stuff begins...At least that is what I kinda recall how that senario ended up at...

Now, regardless, Law Enforcement has the advantage, and that is not necessarily a dominant condition, it is a responsibility more than anything...Although I see both sides of this issue making good points...I have learned that it is best to not give Law Enforcement in any situation an excuse to disarm...That may be easier said than done, and every encounter is different...The common factor being the law again...

Look folks...If there is anything I have learned over the years being a student of self-defense, it is attitude...And having one that is based upon respect, maturity and acceptance of making a mistake (breaking the law, i.e.: speeding or some other moving violation) is paramount...

We (CHL community and Law Enforcement) have done an exceptional job in these encounters and the ones where a disarming have occured have been extremely rare...As far as this forum goes, I can only recall seeing a couple of instances at most where this had happened...

If it happens to me, ok, I'll make a point to relate the encounter, be more brutally honest about my attitude and situation that got me into that condition...So that someone else I hope will learn from it, and hopefully not have a similar problem...

Thats all we can do...