School Resource Officer expects me to help

[KBCraig]

PC 9.51 justifies using force or deadly force at the direction of a peace officer. I have to believe that courts would find in favor of anyone violating CHL laws at the direction of a peace officer.

[Venus Pax]

PC 9.51 justifies using force or deadly force at the direction of a peace officer. I have to believe that courts would find in favor of anyone violating CHL laws at the direction of a peace officer.

I'm sure if a teacher shot a lone, adult attacker that was unknown to him/her, it wouldn't be an issue. The problem would arise if a teacher had to shoot one of his/her own students. It doesn't take too much of an imagination to see where that story can get twisted from it's original plot line by the time it reaches the public's ears by the media. You would need every ounce of the law on your side if you were ever in that predicament, as public opinion and street justice would be set firmly against you.

As a side note, most of the students in public school are a pleasure to teach. The vast majority will behave appropriately and will not committ violent acts against others as long as they are taught right from wrong. You're always going to have a sociopath, regardless of the institution, nation, or time period, and in spite of your best efforts.

[nils]

When innocent people are dying or threatened with deadly force, for me, all of the ordinary rules go out the window....those rules are in place for the average day, and a gunman roaming the school makes it irrelevant for me....I would secure my classroom, sprint to my vehicle, and try to protect as many people as possible....rules-shmules.....

[FlynJay]

I have a good relationship with our SRO. During a discussion involving the actions our school takes to secure our building if we needed to lockdown, he indicated that if there was a real shooter in the building and shots had already been fired, he would expect me to help him. First off, there is no darn way I am going to run out to my car and get my weapon even if I don't have a class of kids to secure. Second, I am not sure that it would be a defense to the prosecution that I broke the law and brought my firearm in to the building. Third, I am pretty sure that I would not have a job if I did this. Your thoughts....

I would tell your SRO to have this discussion with the school Principle, because you are currently bound by law to be unarmed in school buildings. Sprinting to your car to get your weapon is not an option (If you had time to do that, there would be time for the LEOs to arrive). If the SRO would like CHL holders in the school to be armed, and would like them to have specific rolls during an emergency situation, then he is the one who should start discussions with the school leadership.

[seamusTX]

That's a good point.

It also occurred to me that while the safety officer supports lawfully armed citizens and self-defense, someone in the school administration might have kittens if they found out that Tim the Teacher keeps a firearm in his vehicle on school property.

Information of that sort spreads around schools very quickly and becomes exaggerated.

- Jim

[jbirds1210]

PC 9.51 justifies using force or deadly force at the direction of a peace officer. I have to believe that courts would find in favor of anyone violating CHL laws at the direction of a peace officer.

+1

[Bart]

Forget written permission. If he wants my help he needs to get his boss to make me a reserve LEO who can legally carry in schools and at school events and 51% establishments and polling places and 30.06 posted businesses and government meetings and ...

Those would be my terms. The rest is up to him.

[srothstein]

Bart,

That actually might be both easier and harder than you think. It might be easier in that a lot of departments are actively looking for reserve officers and would be glad to put you on. I think it might be an interesting thing to do in a school, have some of the staff as reserve officers if they wanted. If I were an ISD police chief, I would definitely be in favor of it.

It might be harder because then you have to meet all of the TCLEOSE requirements. That means you have to go through an academy. There are a lot of part time night academies, for those willing to spend about 10 months in school 4 hours a night, 5 days a week. And then not to get paid for the job afterward makes it hard to convince people to do it.

[KBCraig]

Forget written permission. If he wants my help he needs to get his boss to make me a reserve LEO....

No one can just "make" you a reserve LEO. The days of handing out badges and putting you to work are long past. Nowdays you have to attend a TCLEOSE academy, probably on your own dime, to be a reserve officer.

[Furyataurus]

Doesn't anyone read the penal code?

Sec. 46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by License Holder.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

[seamusTX]

No, nobody here reads the penal code.

The clause that you quoted is a defense to the charge of intentionally failing to conceal one's handgun. It does nothing for the felony offense of carrying in a school.

- Jim

[Abraham]

Was combat pay mentioned?

[ct214]

P.C. 9.21

(d) The justification afforded by this section is available if the actor
reasonably believes:
(1) the court or governmental tribunal has jurisdiction or the process
is lawful, even though the court or governmental tribunal lacks jurisdiction
or the process is unlawful; or
(2) his conduct is required or authorized to assist a public servant
in the performance of his official duty, even though the servant exceeds
his lawful authority.

9.51 relates to arrest/search. 9.21 is more general... I think.

All that aside.... you gotta sleep at night. The variables are endless. Are you trotting off to your car or is the officer giving you his backup? Is this an adult stranger or a student that is perpetrating the act? Will you keep your job after you make your decision? You have to deal with those variables for you, and make sure you and your beloved (wife, kiddos, etc.) are in-the-know.

Once that's done, you'd sleep better in a jail-cell with no job having saved lives, than you would after being promoted to principle for "doing the right thing" (i.e. nothing) Or, if you decide that it's not your fight, that's okay too. Just make the decision. A decision in the moment is THE biggest thing you have to avoid...IMHO

I'd also avoid any sort of "official" agreement without the school's written endorsement. If you decide you are up to help the guy, just let him know that you aren't afraid to pull a trigger to save lives. The logistics, unfortunately, will HAVE to be decided upon at the time. (i.e. BG between you and the parking lot=no run to car for gun)

Chad

[Bart]

Forget written permission. If he wants my help he needs to get his boss to make me a reserve LEO....

No one can just "make" you a reserve LEO. The days of handing out badges and putting you to work are long past. Nowdays you have to attend a TCLEOSE academy, probably on your own dime, to be a reserve officer.

Those would be my conditions. They can take it or leave it. If I was a teacher, I would be willing to take the Basic Peace Officer course during summer break.