NCIC trumps card in hand????

[Shaggy]

This is a post from another forum I am on and comes from a close personal friend. He lives in VA so things *may* be different there but it does raise a question that I had not thought of before. Can the NCIC trump your TX CHL as this LEO says can be done in VA? Name changed or obvious reasons.

The police officer says...as he handed me my license and registration this afternoon: "You are lucky in 2 ways today Mr. X."

"Oh good. What ways are that?"

"Well, first off, here's your warning."

Thankfully, I tucked my license, registration and the warning into my wallet. "Well, that IS good news - Thank you! What's the second?"

"You're lucky you're not carrying your sidearm today" (Standard Operating Procedure when pulled over - ALWAYS tell the nice officer that you have a permit and that you are or are not currently carrying - even if its not required - chances are it will save you alot of grief)

He drops the bomb - "According to the NCIC, your permit expired in June..."

"But...But.... Here's my permit!" I stammered as I handed him the card - "See? Expires in May of 2013!!!!"

"That's nice, but we don't go by permit cards, we go by what the NCIC tells us."

"Ohhh no!!!"

"Yup - if you had been carrying, I would have had to arrest you, confiscate your weapon and have your vehicle towed."

"Well..... What gives?"

He said that most likely the county circuit court screwed the pooch and did not process the renewal paperwork properly with the feds - I need to take it up with them.

I thanked the dude again and have just fired off a very hot email to our Clerk of the Court. This is TOTAL nonsense!!!

Please take heed if you have a CWP - drop by your local police station and VERIFY that your NCIC records are accurate - it could save you ALOT of hassle!

[Mike1951]

It sounds like VA has the county as an added entity to deal with that would not be applicable here in Texas.

I can't see the same situation happening here.

[Shaggy]

But couldn't the same thing happen in Austin? Does TX even register its CHL holders with the NCIC?

[Elvis]

I believe your CHL status is in the TCIC database. NCIC is the national database and does not contain anything but wanted person/stolen proprty information. Sounds like the OP mis-spoke and the Officer was refering to the State database in VA not NCIC. Since DPS in Texas administers TCIC and the CHL database that should never happen here. To answer the original question, yes the Officer can rely on the information the the VA database. Similar thing happens from time to time here in Texas when an Officer runs someone and they come back with warrants that have already been taken care of but some clerk did not follow up and recall the warrant. Officer has to rely on the information in TCIC/NCIC and confirm the warrant is still active. Person gets arrested and has a false arrest/civil suit action against the issuing agency.

[3dfxMM]

If it were to happen here wouldn't the "offender" be ok anyway due to the new law regarding car carry?

[srothstein]

There may be differences between states, but this would not be applicable in Texas. First, the officer probably referred to NCIC as the general format for the run, since most do not know the full setup. In Texas, the actual information is contained in a DPS database which connects to the TLETS system. While we generally refer to it as NCIC/TCIC, truly those are the warrant and stolen databases. The DL, CHL, and registration information are in separate databases connected to the TLETS system.

Now, could the database have an error in it? Sure it can. The data is entered by people and people make mistakes. I have made mistakes entering data myself, so I know it can happen. I have seen DL's with the data a week or so behind on such things as suspensions. I have seen the registration database (which is entered by the county) out by as much as two years. That happens when the county renews and the link tot he TxDOT system is down.

So I assume this could happen in the CHL system also.

But, there is some good news for all of you if you are concerned. The first is that the information in the computer is not supposed to be considered as probable cause for anything. The paper with the person has more weight. If you had a CHL that the computer showed expired and your one in hand showed valid, the cops are supposed to check further before taking action. DPS has people on hand 24 hours that can recheck the computers. In addition, I would think any cop would think that the one on hand would give reasonable doubt (though I freely admit that there are cops who will ignore things they don't like). In those cases, you would definitely win the court case. You should also be able to get the money back from the city for the towing and any other expenses, though it might take the threat of a lawsuit.

[Penn]

In Texas, is carrying a concealed handgun with an expired license the same charge as carrying a concealed handgun with no license issued?

[Kythas]

In Texas, is carrying a concealed handgun with an expired license the same charge as carrying a concealed handgun with no license issued?

I believe so. If your license is expired you are no longer legally licensed.

[barres]

If it were to happen here wouldn't the "offender" be ok anyway due to the new law regarding car carry?

Absolutely. Unless you were doing something that would disqualify you for a CHL, anyway, or were a gang member.

[tarkus]

Is he saying CHL's don't have to carry a license in VA because the computer is what matters?

[Shaggy]

Nope, you still need your card, however the computer can over rule it.

[boomerang]

If the computer can over rule it why do you need the card? Sounds like another way to hassle law abiding American citizens.