Legality of carrying in a school building

[CleverNickname]

I was reading PC 46.03 for a different legal question I had, and I noticed something in section (a) that I hadn't seen before.

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the premises of a school or postsecondary educational institution, on any grounds or building owned by and under the control of a school or postsecondary educational institution and on which an activity sponsored by the school or institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or postsecondary educational institution, whether the school or postsecondary educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the school or institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of a postsecondary educational institution, on any grounds or building owned by and under the control of the institution and on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;

Reading section (a)(1), it appears that carrying on school premises is only illegal if "an activity sponsored by the school or institution is being conducted". I know that some public schools lease out their buildings on Sundays to churches who don't own their own buildings, and since those church services aren't an activity sponsored by the school then it appears that carrying there during that time is legal. Am I reading this correctly or not?

If you think I'm reading it incorrectly, would the legal situation differ if it were a church-owned building that was a private school during the week and used by the church for bible study on Sundays? If so, why?

[Paladin]

...on the premises of a school or postsecondary educational institution, on any grounds or...

I think the "or" is the part you are not considering. I wouldn't want to pay a lawyer to argue the "ands" and "ors" in court

[RoyGBiv]

IANAI. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. worth what you paid for it..

Note that "Premises" is defined in TX PC as the building and does not include the grounds outside the building... so...

I read it as.....

Carry is prohibited...
1. ...... on the premises of a school or postsecondary educational institution.... and....
2. ......on any grounds or building owned by and under the control of a school or postsecondary educational institution ..... IF... an activity sponsored by the school or institution is being conducted

My translation... again... my opinion, not legal advice...

1. You can't carry in the building .... and...
2. You can't carry on the grounds if a school activity is taking place, but, you can carry on the grounds if there is no school activity... and... letting kids out of school is not a "sponsored activity"... but a HS football game is.

[howdy]

The forum at one point was full of legality questions and discussions. There was good banter and viewpoints and usually a consensus on the correct answer was found. This kept me more up to date and knowledgeable on the law as we perceive it. I have been an Instructor since 2002 and always taught that you could not carry IN the building (premises) of school property, classrooms, administration building. You could not go out on a school field and watch your child practice school football, band, etc with a gun. You COULD carry on that same field on Saturday when your youngster was playing AYSO soccer. You could not carry to Church on Sunday if that Church was using a school building. You COULD carry in a Church building on Sunday if a private school used that building during the week. Inside a school owned building is ALWAYS off limits. I remember long discussions on carrying into a Church during the week where a preschool was holding class. I attend a Church that has that exact situation. The preschool is in a separate part of the building with a locked and controlled access. I do carry in the main building. Then we had the long discussions on what a "school" is. Is Sunday "School" a school. Is welding "school" a school.

OK, tell me where I am wrong. (I teach very few classes because most prefer the on-line course. I do shooting qualifications all the time.)

[Boxerrider]

I mostly agree with Howdy, with a few personal clarifications.
Several years ago I spent a fair amount of time studying this. As a parent and educator, I was on and around school campuses a lot and wanted to be on the legal side of the line. It isn't always clear, so I tried to figure out what I considered to be legally defendable. I believe unauthorized school carry is still a felony - a very different consequence that carrying past a 30.06 sign.

Field trips: If I am in a restaurant and my child's group is to - OK. If I have school approval to accompany the group to the restaurant - NOT OK.

Parking Lot/Common Areas: Present-day school security being what it is, you have to pass through a locked door or gate to enter. Anywhere outside of that - OK, unless the school is conducting an official activity there. Example - parking lot pep rally or send off for the volleyball team - NOT OK.

What is a school to me? Now that college campus carry is legal, it is an institution with an accreditation to confer a high school degree (or a portion of that degree in the case of a school that does not operate through grade 12). In Texas, that accrediting body is the TEA for public schools, and either TEPSAC or IALDS for private schools. https://tea.texas.gov/texas-schools/acc ... ion-status

Now remember - "(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the school or institution"
In the case of an accredited school in a church, the school (principal/superintendent/board) can authorize anyone they want to carry. They could authorize "all members of the congregation" to carry as far as I know. That has always been there - the School Guardian and similar programs are more recent and have an additional level of training and organization.

YMMV
Enjoy!
Jeff

[oohrah]

IIRC, "postsecondary educational institution" was modified by the campus carry law, and is now governed by 30.06.

[Paladin]

After the passage of Texas legislation there is a summary of intent. That summary may shed some light on this matter.

I am not a lawyer, but I have been called to jury duty. Most of the jurors I saw selected were middle aged women who would not at all be impressed with a linguistic interpretation argument of "that and meant this" and that "that or meant this" when a firearm was carried in their kid's school. And realistically, even if you won, good legal representation isn't cheap.

[Boxerrider]

Yes, where you are, and who is in your jury pool, can affect the size of the grey area.

[Ruark]

Inside a school owned building is ALWAYS off limits.

That's a good central rule. I remember bringing this up several years ago on here, when I was teaching some adult education classes in the evenings (e.g. 7 to 9 p.m.) using a local elementary school building. Even during the summer, when school was out, carrying was a no-no. Made me a little nervous, because it was at night and sometimes we were the ONLY people in the building, completely alone.

[Vol Texan]

Inside a school owned building is ALWAYS off limits.

That's a good central rule. I remember bringing this up several years ago on here, when I was teaching some adult education classes in the evenings (e.g. 7 to 9 p.m.) using a local elementary school building. Even during the summer, when school was out, carrying was a no-no. Made me a little nervous, because it was at night and sometimes we were the ONLY people in the building, completely alone.

Not if you are the Presiding Judge in a Texas election:

• https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/law ... 8-29.shtml
• https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/si ... kp0212.pdf

I carry in the gym of our local elementary school / voting location while presiding on Election Day.

[Paladin]

Inside a school owned building is ALWAYS off limits.

That's a good central rule. I remember bringing this up several years ago on here, when I was teaching some adult education classes in the evenings (e.g. 7 to 9 p.m.) using a local elementary school building. Even during the summer, when school was out, carrying was a no-no. Made me a little nervous, because it was at night and sometimes we were the ONLY people in the building, completely alone.

Not if you are the Presiding Judge in a Texas election:

• https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/law ... 8-29.shtml
• https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/si ... kp0212.pdf

I carry in the gym of our local elementary school / voting location while presiding on Election Day.

Very interesting! Thanks!

[Vol Texan]

Inside a school owned building is ALWAYS off limits.

That's a good central rule. I remember bringing this up several years ago on here, when I was teaching some adult education classes in the evenings (e.g. 7 to 9 p.m.) using a local elementary school building. Even during the summer, when school was out, carrying was a no-no. Made me a little nervous, because it was at night and sometimes we were the ONLY people in the building, completely alone.

Not if you are the Presiding Judge in a Texas election:

• https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/law ... 8-29.shtml
• https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/si ... kp0212.pdf

I carry in the gym of our local elementary school / voting location while presiding on Election Day.

Very interesting! Thanks!

Using my very best Chic-fil-A drive-through voice: "My Pleasure!"

For the record, with EACH and EVERY election, I seek out and obtain written acknowledgement from the folks in the Harris County elections office that they recognize I can carry in the specific location where I'll be working.

Then (just to cover all my bases in case I catch the attention of some particulary observant HISD officer), I carry with me

1. a printed copy of the AG opinion 212
2. a printed copy of the SOS guidance, and
3. a printed copy of the email from Harris County
4. (along with my LTC card, Walther PDP in a Crossbreed Supertuck, and two spare 18-round mags )