Frustration at 30.06 signage

[TreyHouston]

I don't know of any firefighters or EMS workers that don't volunteer their services when needed. Perhaps this is a way to get more people (professionals) on the registered volunteer list?

[TexasTornado]

Might I suggest a new topic on volunteer vs first responder and definitions pertaining? I think the conversation is important enough that we'll want to be able to find and reference it later.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

Anyone else find it ironic, that a museum endowed by the Perot family, and named for H. Ross Perot - a libertarian - is posted 06 and 07?

in the comments on their entry in Texas3006.com https://www.texas3006.com/view.php?id=2083 one user posted the reply he got from museum staff when he complained. It seems that, much like the zoo, the museum thinks that they are a school.

[tbrown]

It applies to all first responders and volunteers also. It wouldn't make any sense to allow only volunteers carry and continue to ban the vast majority of first responders.

Since when did gun control laws make sense?

[Rex B]

Headed to the Perot Museum in Dallas today.

Can anyone verify whether it is posted 30.06 or not?

EDIT: Checked the website, says 30.06 is posted.

Also says any found carrying will be asked to remove the weapon from the facility. My visit this time makes that difficult (family, children, long way to parking) so I'll be going naked.

[LDB415]

Someone said the only places that are truly posted are those with metal detectors. I can see their point. The ornery part of me always wants to ask places posted 30.06 if they also have a sign banning blue underwear.

[RoyGBiv]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

[Tex1961]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

[ScottDLS]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

That is incorrect. Volunteer emergency services personnel have a carve out in 30.06/7. If one wanted to carry at the Perot museum and they did not have metal detectors, if that person was a VESP, then they could do so legally.

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
....
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations.

[Rex B]

(18)any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations.

Based on that, a ham radio operator would qualify

[Vol Texan]

(18)any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations.

Based on that, a ham radio operator would qualify

If that ham radio operator is a member of ARES, I might could see the argument.

[Tex1961]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

That is incorrect. Volunteer emergency services personnel have a carve out in 30.06/7. If one wanted to carry at the Perot museum and they did not have metal detectors, if that person was a VESP, then they could do so legally.

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
....
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations.

I'm not going to get into a legal / pissing contest with you. Per the instructors at the DPS training academy when I took the On Duty First Responder Instructor course. We were told in very straight terms that HB 1069 changed a lot of the penal codes especially under section 46. And one of those were that volunteer emergency services were not allowed to carry past a 30.06... You are more than welcome to do your own research and maybe prove the DPS instructors wrong. I'm just relaying what I was told directly by the instructors at the academy.

(20) "First responder" means a public safety employee whose duties include responding rapidly to an emergency. The term includes fire protection personnel as defined by Section 419.021, Government Code, and emergency medical services personnel as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code. The term does not include:
(A) volunteer emergency services personnel;
(B) an emergency medical services volunteer, as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code; or
(C) a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law enforcement duties.

[ScottDLS]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

That is incorrect. Volunteer emergency services personnel have a carve out in 30.06/7. If one wanted to carry at the Perot museum and they did not have metal detectors, if that person was a VESP, then they could do so legally.

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
....
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations.

I'm not going to get into a legal / pissing contest with you. Per the instructors at the DPS training academy when I took the On Duty First Responder Instructor course. We were told in very straight terms that HB 1069 changed a lot of the penal codes especially under section 46. And one of those were that volunteer emergency services were not allowed to carry past a 30.06... You are more than welcome to do your own research and maybe prove the DPS instructors wrong. I'm just relaying what I was told directly by the instructors at the academy.

(20) "First responder" means a public safety employee whose duties include responding rapidly to an emergency. The term includes fire protection personnel as defined by Section 419.021, Government Code, and emergency medical services personnel as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code. The term does not include:
(A) volunteer emergency services personnel;
(B) an emergency medical services volunteer, as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code; or
(C) a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law enforcement duties.

That is very nice that you were told something by DPS, but they have no authority to chnage the law, only the legislature does. So you and they (if you were in fact told what you said) are incorrect.

This is from the CURRENT Texas Constitution and Statutes.

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;
...
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.


Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
...
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations. The term does not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law enforcement duties.

[RoyGBiv]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

Emergency service volunteer....
I carry 4 credentials from emergency service organizations to which I contribute hours every month, attend meetings, training, serve on boards, etc. Police, Fire, City Emergency Management and Medical Reserve Corps. I'm confident I qualify for the Defense to Prosecution carve out in 30.0X.

The only requirement for being on-duty is for chapter 46/schools.

[Tex1961]

Get a Red Cross CPR card. That's what I did so I can ignore 30.06 signs starting 9/1.

❄

If I was on the jury, I'd do my best to get you an acquittal, but, IMO a CPR card doesn't meet the volunteer definition.
I'm not going to ask for the AG to give an opinion, but being a test case can be expensive and cost you your license.

Even though it's a 5 year old post, the only thing that can get you legally past a 30.06 is if your are a One duty first responder with a ODFR certificate from the state. Volunteers do NOT qualify for this certificate.

Emergency service volunteer....
I carry 4 credentials from emergency service organizations to which I contribute hours every month, attend meetings, training, serve on boards, etc. Police, Fire, City Emergency Management and Medical Reserve Corps. I'm confident I qualify for the Defense to Prosecution carve out in 30.0X.

The only requirement for being on-duty is for chapter 46/schools.

Hey, I understand.... And I agree the laws are quite confusing. I've been pouring over the ODFR presentation and honestly it has some contradictions. This is way past my training for sure. I might try and contact the DPS training department next week and get a clarification myself. I've been pouring over most of the government codes 30, health and safety codes and there is a lot of conflicting information. As I tell students multiple times, I am not a lawyer and as such don't give out legal advise. I can only tell students what I know based on what the DPS has told me.

Also some clarification which also may come into play. The on duty certification for first responders really only apply to those who work for counties or municipalities with smaller populations. Municipality with a population of 30,000 or less or a county with a population of 250,000 or less. And only those who are employed by the municipalities or county as full time employees, (NOT VOLUNTEERS). can get the ODFR certificate. Or at least can't utilize it to carry while on duty without permission from their respective departments.

On a side note I will say that considering passing a 30.06 is only a Class C misdemeanor I wouldn't worry to much about it. And you are quite correct about 46.03 locations and federal property.