Covert Dealership

[txinvestigator]

TX, you really do not understand what the people are trying to say, we really do not want to spend our money with people who do not support the US Constitution, you may wish to redefine your political position, and you may not, as you chose.

Them supporting the US Consititution has nothing to do with their private business. I can fully support yout right to keep and bear arms, but not want you carrying in my house, where that right does not exist. A private property owner is not subject to the amendments. They apply to the government.

And don't be confused, I full understand what these folks mean. They want to do exaclty what they hate having done to them; pushing their beliefs and wants (expressed in make believe rights) on others.

[txinvestigator]

Well, those who support the 2nd amendment should choose not to work for those who do not.

And what makes you think a person posting a 30.06 does not supprt the 2nd? How do you know HE does not have a CHL and that HE does not carry on his property?

You don't. Again, the 2nd has nothing to do with private property.

You support the 1st? Then don't shop anywhere, cause no shop owner does. No shop owner will let you enter their business and have freedom of speech.

[txinvestigator]

I've been to Covert on 183 in Austin . . . the signs I've seen are not valid signs, and may actually have been posted to placate soccer mommies. FWIW, a couple of years ago I was at the parts counter, and a couple of guys who were on break about 20 feet back of the counter were taking target practice with either pellet or airsoft guns, so I'd say Covert's hoplophobia - if it exists at all - doesn't run very deep.

If Coverts decided to placate soccer Mom's they did so at the risk of offending CHLers. I know a few soccer Moms, but I never met one that looks for no gun signs. Typically they are pretty oblivious to the world around them. I've met a few CHLers and all of them look for the no gun signs. I find it hard to believe that many antis really look for those signs even though there are many that love to post those signs and show the world how they really believe. I wouldn't do business with anyone who had a "No Blonds Allowed" either, its not because I'm blond, just that I can find someone friendlier to do business with.

Invalid argument. A more valid argument would be a "no hats" sign, since a hat can be removed, and is not a factor of DNA (or coloring, I realize)

That said, if you (not you specifically, but you in general) want to refuse to do business with people who only think like you, that is your privilege and I don't care.

What I object to is characterizing people who choose to do so as anti 2nd, and characterizing them as not wanting CHL holders business under any circumstances.

[stevie_d_64]

"Honest Abe's Used Car Sales"

Pasadena, Texas

Now theres a dealer you can trust!

[Liberty]

What I object to is characterizing people who choose to do so as anti 2nd, and characterizing them as not wanting CHL holders business under any circumstances.

I characterize them as being anti CHL, anti RKBA, and anti gun. I do not believe that they will refuse to do business with an unarmed CHL I never said that. Covert doesn't want us and our guns in their store. They expect us to disarm ourselves for the privilege of giving them $20K + of business Its a darned unfriendly attitude if you ask me.


I might have a simplistic view of things, but I see our basic rights as something should be fought for. Some people are our enemy when it comes to the RKBA. They vote against us the polls, and and spread negative attitudes about about guns. The very signs themselves are a means of spreading antigun sentiments. I feel that disarming oneself and entering Covert's would be a concession to their point of view. Obviously you don't agree. I do believe that if they simply removed their sign it would increase their business. You and they should be able to understand that point. Its already cost them one customer. It proves to me that they are willing to sacrifice business for that sign. That is that right, but it seems to prove to me just how strongly they believe in disarming good folks. We only have certain clues which may not be all that accurate. as to whether strangers we do business with are on our side. One of these clues is the posting of signs. Signs are a public statement that they do not want people carrying guns in their stores. When gun unfriendly businesses such as Covert Ford choose to post these signs, they should expect their names to be dragged a little through the mud. They should expect that their actions will cost them some business. The Right to bare arms is very important to a lot of people in Texas, and I must admit they have taken a somewhat courageous stand, because surely they realize that such signs will cost them some business. I don't think anyone stays in business that long could be stupid. Signs are one way of expressing how their stance. If they were really progun folks, they would not be asking good people to disarm themselves to enter their store.

I also think its impolite and rude to ask people to strip themselves of their guns. We are used to Hospitals and School officials being rude and impolite, but new car dealers usually don't make positives efforts to chase business. Shucks, some dealers used to actually give guns away with a new car purchase.

[Lucky45]

I characterize them as being anti CHL, anti RKBA, and anti gun.......The very signs themselves are a means of spreading antigun sentiments. I feel that disarming oneself and entering Covert's would be a concession to their point of view......... That is that right, but it seems to prove to me just how strongly they believe in disarming good folks. ........Signs are a public statement that they do not want people carrying guns in their stores. If they were really progun folks, they would not be asking good people to disarm themselves to enter their store.

Hey Liberty,
you have the right to your personal opinions, but I just have one question about your statements pertaining to what I have highlighted. You are concerned about THIS particular business having a 30.05 sign posted, as trying to disarm good folks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sign is not valid to CHL holders and you are NOT REQUIRED to disarm, according to the law. Then you have some people that say , well that is there intent so I will just disarm to be safe. If that is the case, then why don't we all just build a tall fence around your house and not leave, because you can say that for thousands of business that post "NO GUNS" signs. What is the PURPOSE of PC30.06, then? Are we suppose to stop entering these places now? I have NO arguements with anyone that does not want a gun on their premises. But if they want to exclude CHL holders from they property, then they SHOULD know that the only sign that can do that LEGALLY, is the 30.06.
Also, the only GOOD FOLKS that would be walking up to a business with a gun would be a CHL holder. Any else carrying a gun would be doing so ILLEGALLY. I would hope that the business has a sign to REMIND THEM of that. And I think that is what this and other businesses are attempting to do. Therefore, I think you are taking instances like this one too personal as far as the RKBA, since you cannot bear arms(not long gun) in public without a license.

[Liberty]

it seems to prove to me just how strongly they believe in disarming good folks. ........Signs are a public statement that they do not want people carrying guns in their stores. If they were really progun folks, they would not be asking good people to disarm themselves to enter their store.

Hey Liberty,
you have the right to your personal opinions, but I just have one question about your statements pertaining to what I have highlighted. You are concerned about THIS particular business having a 30.05 sign posted, as trying to disarm good folks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sign is not valid to CHL holders and you are NOT REQUIRED to disarm, according to the law. Then you have some people that say , well that is there intent so I will just disarm to be safe.

You are quite correct, and I don't believe there is any legal requirement to disarm. However it is quite clear that the attempt to and request to disarm folks is there. The sign is offensive.

If that is the case, then why don't we all just build a tall fence around your house and not leave, because you can say that for thousands of business that post "NO GUNS" signs.

I try not to go to any business that willingly posts a no guns sign. (whether they are 30.06 or not) Some signs are required by law. What Covert seems to want to keep folks from packing within their store they have that that right I wouldn't deny them that write. But the sign is clue that the folks are antis and are not CHL friendly. Just because they aren't the smartest antis on the block doesn't mean they deserve our business.

What is the PURPOSE of PC30.06, then? Are we suppose to stop entering these places now? I have NO arguements with anyone that does not want a gun on their premises. But if they want to exclude CHL holders from they property, then they SHOULD know that the only sign that can do that LEGALLY, is the 30.06.

The nice thing about the 30.06 law. is that it becomes even clearer about which businesses should be avoided.

Also, the only GOOD FOLKS that would be walking up to a business with a gun would be a CHL holder. Any else carrying a gun would be doing so ILLEGALLY. I would hope that the business has a sign to REMIND THEM of that. And I think that is what this and other businesses are attempting to do. Therefore, I think you are taking instances like this one too personal as far as the RKBA, since you cannot bear arms(not long gun) in public without a license.

While I don't take Covert to seriously, because I wouldn't buy a car from them anyway, they are to far away. and it will be a long while I hope before I am car shopping again. Is it personal? I don't like folks asking me to disarm. I was shopping for cars a few months ago. Believe me most dealers don't find it necessary to post these offensive signs. If I had no choice but to go into the place, I would probably not disarm.

[carlson1]

It looks like the debate on the sign has gone to far to me. The issue to ME is not rather the sign is LEGAL or ILLEGAL for CHL holders. The issue to ME is that they even wents so far as to post ANY SIGN. I could care less rather it is 30.05, ghostbuster, or 30.06 sign it is just the fact that they "WANT" to keep guns out.

[flintknapper]

The answer to your questions can probably be had right here:

Name: Kenny Covert Department: New Sales

Title: General Sales Manager Phone No.: 512-345-4343

Email :

kennycovert@covertauto.com



http://www.covertford.com/aboutus.jsp


I emailed Kenny this past weekend, but have not gotten a reply yet.

Perhaps the prudent thing to do (for all those concerned) would be to email him and see what he says.

Then, we can all stop speculating.

[carlson1]

Flint it does not make a lot of difference to me either way since I am not in the area to do business. I am just speaking in general about ANY Business with ANY sign. "The proof is in the pudding."

[flintknapper]

Flint it does not make a lot of difference to me either way since I am not in the area to do business. I am just speaking in general about ANY Business with ANY sign. "The proof is in the pudding."

I can appreciate that point of view.

However, we don't know (yet) if the general manager even knows about the sign, and we certainly shouldn't speculate about his (or the companies) feelings about the 2nd Amendment based on this IMO.

I may be wrong, perhaps this new generation of Covert's are anti-gun, anti-RKBA, etc... but I kind of doubt it. If I hadn't grown up in Austin....and didn't know anything about this family...I might take a different point of view. But I did, and I do....so I'm going to reserve judgment.

If I get a reply from them....I will post it here (with their permission).

Thanks,

Flint.

[lawrnk]

Well, those who support the 2nd amendment should choose not to work for those who do not.

And what makes you think a person posting a 30.06 does not supprt the 2nd? How do you know HE does not have a CHL and that HE does not carry on his property?

You don't. Again, the 2nd has nothing to do with private property.

You support the 1st? Then don't shop anywhere, cause no shop owner does. No shop owner will let you enter their business and have freedom of speech.

I think it is rather obvious. Sometimes I think you enjoy having the "alternative" opinion, but you will be hard pressed to find many CHL's who believe that any company who posts a 30.06 is a supporter of the 2nd. I am a business owner, and I have customers who believe GWB used a remote control to fly a plane into the towers. I think that woman is a complete moron, but I'll take her money and business. She can say any flipping thing she wants as far as I am concerned. She also runs the area democrat club in Sienna, with all of 5 members in our 20,000 person community. To argue with a democrat is like winning the special olympics regardless.

[txinvestigator]

Well, those who support the 2nd amendment should choose not to work for those who do not.

And what makes you think a person posting a 30.06 does not supprt the 2nd? How do you know HE does not have a CHL and that HE does not carry on his property?

You don't. Again, the 2nd has nothing to do with private property.

You support the 1st? Then don't shop anywhere, cause no shop owner does. No shop owner will let you enter their business and have freedom of speech.

I think it is rather obvious. Sometimes I think you enjoy having the "alternative" opinion, but you will be hard pressed to find many CHL's who believe that any company who posts a 30.06 is a supporter of the 2nd.

Yes, since we don't agree I must just "enjoy" the alternative opinion.

It is really a simple concept, but there is no need to repeat what I have posted several times already.

[40FIVER]

It just looks like the Coverts are straddling the fence. They post a non-compliant sign the the CHLers know has no force, so they think the CHLer will just come on in. But the antis think Covert is one of them because they have a no guns sign posted. It looks like a business that wants to make everybody happy and not have to show their true feelings.

I would prefer a business that is completely honest. But we are talking about car dealers here.

[carlson1]

It just looks like the Coverts are straddling the fence. They post a non-compliant sign the the CHLers know has no force, so they think the CHLer will just come on in. But the antis think Covert is one of them because they have a no guns sign posted. It looks like a business that wants to make everybody happy and not have to show their true feelings.

I would prefer a business that is completely honest. But we are talking about car dealers here.

VERY WELL SAID! This is what I think, but could not write. I agree 110% Thank you 40FIVER.