A new question...another aspect of "Did you commit a cr

[TX_Jim]

Original post: http://texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum ... 16&start=0

Let’s assume that everything occurred as stated in the original post. And let’s assume that the DA chose not to prosecute. What happens next? I assume (and I guess this is a part of my questions) that the county coroner did an autopsy; does the autopsy list the manner of death as a homicide? If so, does that mean it is an unsolved murder (or at least can be construed as an unsolved murder)? Because murder has no statute of limitations, is it possible for a new DA to come into office…say ten…years latter and decide to do some grand jury shopping and attempt to prosecute the case? I guess I am asking that in an incident as described in the original post…how long will the shooter have to look over their shoulder for possible prosecution?

You know….ten years is a long time…witnesses forget details…or may no longer be alive and etc. It could change what a jury might hear and make self-defense harder to prove.

[txinvestigator]

Original post: http://texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum ... 16&start=0

Let’s assume that everything occurred as stated in the original post. And let’s assume that the DA chose not to prosecute. What happens next? I assume (and I guess this is a part of my questions) that the county coroner did an autopsy; does the autopsy list the manner of death as a homicide? If so, does that mean it is an unsolved murder (or at least can be construed as an unsolved murder)? Because murder has no statute of limitations, is it possible for a new DA to come into office…say ten…years latter and decide to do some grand jury shopping and attempt to prosecute the case? I guess I am asking that in an incident as described in the original post…how long will the shooter have to look over their shoulder for possible prosecution?

You know….ten years is a long time…witnesses forget details…or may no longer be alive and etc. It could change what a jury might hear and make self-defense harder to prove.

The legal answer is that there is no statute of limitations for murder, and a no-bill does not effect double jeopardy. So yes, a DA could wait for the new GJ to sit, discover new evidence and re-present it to the original GJ, or wait ten years.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Original post: http://texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum ... 16&start=0

Let’s assume that everything occurred as stated in the original post. And let’s assume that the DA chose not to prosecute. What happens next? I assume (and I guess this is a part of my questions) that the county coroner did an autopsy; does the autopsy list the manner of death as a homicide?

I would imagine so. The immediate cause of death would be that he had been shot. And we know he was shot by a particular person, because that person freely admitted to doing it. So it's definitely a homicide.

If so, does that mean it is an unsolved murder (or at least can be construed as an unsolved murder)?

No. Because not all homicides are criminal homicides. And in the statute, murder is defined as one type of criminal homicide.

It's not "unsolved" because we know who did it. And it's not a "murder" because only some homicides are murders, and this one isn't. Because if it was, and we knew who did it, that person would have been indicted.

Because murder has no statute of limitations, is it possible for a new DA to come into office…say ten…years latter and decide to do some grand jury shopping and attempt to prosecute the case?

That's an interesting question and I would say that I honestly don't know. I can think of a scenario where new evidence becomes known that raises the possibility that it was, in fact, a criminal homicide. Something like that might make a new DA, or even the same DA, seek an indictment. And it seems like the law would allow for it. And maybe it could even be done in the absence of any new evidence.

I guess I am asking that in an incident as described in the original post…how long will the shooter have to look over their shoulder for possible prosecution?

Good question. Possibly forever, though I don't really know.

You know….ten years is a long time…witnesses forget details…or may no longer be alive and etc. It could change what a jury might hear and make self-defense harder to prove.

It's possible that at some point one could argue that they have been ddenied their right to a speedy trial. But that might only apply to the time elapsed after they are indicted.

[seamusTX]

I think the DA can seek an indictment on an old case at any time, at least in Texas.

We have seen this happen many times with decades-old murders from the civil right era, where evidence came out and people were tried and found guilty.

- Jim

[Moonpie]

This may be incorrect information but I heard that there is NO statue of limitations on ANY crime.
If the present day DA thinks he has enough evidence he can take you to court for crimes committed decades before.

[TX_Jim]

Another small twist...how does all this play into the castle doctrin. If the shooter is not formally charged and cleared. Can the BG's family come back and sue (and possibly win). I believe the castle doctrin only protects those who can not be held criminally liable. If a jury never makes that determination...is the shooter protected under the castle doctrin...or would the shooter have to prove justification during the civil law suite?

[TX_Jim]

This may be incorrect information but I heard that there is NO statue of limitations on ANY crime.
If the present day DA thinks he has enough evidence he can take you to court for crimes committed decades before.

I believe that some...if not most crimes...have a statute of limitation. I will look that up to verify.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Another small twist...how does all this play into the castle doctrin. If the shooter is not formally charged and cleared. Can the BG's family come back and sue (and possibly win). I believe the castle doctrin only protects those who can not be held criminally liable. If a jury never makes that determination...is the shooter protected under the castle doctrin...or would the shooter have to prove justification during the civil law suite?

As always, they can sue.

Absent jury verdict of "not guilty", it might be slightly easier for them to win such a suit, but it would still be an uphill climb. They would have to show by the preponderence of the evidence that the shooting was unlawful vis-a-vis the self defense statutes (or whichever section lf law applies). The fact that no charges were brought is pretty strong evidence that the shooting was lawful.

I think that in practice, very few attorneys would take such a case on a contingent fee basis because they would judge the chances of winning to be small.

[txinvestigator]

This may be incorrect information but I heard that there is NO statue of limitations on ANY crime.
If the present day DA thinks he has enough evidence he can take you to court for crimes committed decades before.

That is incorrect;

For misdemeanors the Statute of limitation is 2 years. For felonies it varies. Here are the felonies with no limit; Code of Criminal Procedure Art. 12.01. FELONIES. Except as provided in Article 12.03,
felony indictments may be presented within these limits, and not
afterward:
(1) no limitation:
(A) murder and manslaughter;
(B) sexual assault, if during the investigation of the
offense biological matter is collected and subjected to forensic
DNA testing and the testing results show that the matter does not
match the victim or any other person whose identity is readily
ascertained; or
(C) an offense involving leaving the scene of an accident
under Section 550.021, Transportation Code, if the accident
resulted in the death of a person;

Here is a link to all of it; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#12.01.00

[srothstein]

TXI answered the part I wanted to, but he gave slightly out of date information. Some of the limitations have changed, and there are a few new crimes with no limit. But that is a minor side point.

The answer to the original question is that the cause of death is listed as a homicide. On this point, Frankie is correct. It would not get counted as an unsolved murder because it was not necessarily a criminal homicide.

It is true that a future DA, or the present one, can go back to get a grand jury indictment at any time during the limit. As an aside, the statute of limitations applies from the time the crime is committed until the date of indictment being returned or information being filed with the court. It also does not apply for any time the suspect spent out of the state of Texas, though I am not sure if that is ever really taken into account on these things.

As a further answer, it is not counted as an unsolved murder because the murder was solved. If the police decided it was a murder, and counted it that way in their statistics (which I think they would for FBI UCR reporting), it would get counted as solved. A case is considered solved when the police are satisfied that they know who committed the crime or are not going to ever want to investigate it again, either by filing charges, finding of guilt, or by what is known as "solved by exception". A very common solution by exception is when the victim declines to prosecute. Another is when the police and DA/Grand Jury decide a case was justified under the law. There is no legal system use of the term solved or unsolved for the judicial aspect of the case. It is just a police use.

[txinvestigator]

TXI answered the part I wanted to, but he gave slightly out of date information. Some of the limitations have changed, and there are a few new crimes with no limit. But that is a minor side point.

I quoted and linked to the '05 legislative sessions laws as on the Legislature website. Were there changes this session? If so, do you have a bill number? I am trying to keep a file of changed laws to reference, as the online site will not be changed until Feb.

[srothstein]

TXI, I do not have the bill number, but there were several changes. The new offense of continued sexual abuse of a young child and some of the other sexual assault of minors have varying limits from 10 years after the 18th birthday to never. I noticed that there were other changes in the list, but do not have them handy.

I am out of town right now, but will send you a list of the changes (or a copy of the new section from Lexis-Nexis) when i get back into my office.

[txinvestigator]

TXI, I do not have the bill number, but there were several changes. The new offense of continued sexual abuse of a young child and some of the other sexual assault of minors have varying limits from 10 years after the 18th birthday to never. I noticed that there were other changes in the list, but do not have them handy.

I am out of town right now, but will send you a list of the changes (or a copy of the new section from Lexis-Nexis) when i get back into my office.

Thank you. I have ordered the Lexis-Nexis CD, which will have EVERYTHING, but I have no idea when it will arrive.