Denied CHL

[rotor]

I would suggest that if you need a physician release go directly to a psychiatrist (if that’s what the state wants) as you will be paying 2 visits if you see a neurologist first.

[howdy]

I went through the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program back in 2003. (This is the Airline pilots who carry handguns) We had to jump through many hoops and satisfy many politicians. I think at that time (the program was just starting) the state of Texas had 2 Psychiatrists that were certified by the FFDO program. Luckily for me, one was in Houston where I lived. This guy seemed neutral as far as guns go. He asked questions like, "do you think you could kill someone". How do you answer that. I was a Marine tactical jet Pilot that was cleared to carry weapons of unimaginable killing power. The Marines thought I was capable of doing that mission. I told the shrink that I would not hesitate to shoot someone to protect my passengers and my crew and to stop my aircraft from becoming a weapon. I guess he approved of my answers because I passed his exam. Flash over to California. They too had 1 or 2 shrinks available and BOTH were rabidly anti-gun. They denied just about EVERYONE going to them no matter their military or civilian background. The FFDO program got rid of these shrinks and picked a more moderate group and the pilots there started getting through.

Shrinks are like everyone else. They have their own personal biases and will include those in their evaluation. If you decide to continue on the LTC quest, pick your shrink carefully.

[RPBrown]

I have a brother who was involved with drugs and alcohol over 25 years ago and went through rehab and AA/NA programs. In fact he still goes to NA and AA on occasion. The first thing he tells us is once an addict, always an addict meaning even though he has been clean for 25+ years, he could still fall off of the wagon. I know that even to this day, he tries to not go to a party or gathering where adult beverages are being freely served because of the temptations. He is okay going to a restaurant because he doesn't sit in or near the bar area and as for the drugs, he just stays away from that crowd.

Now, I am not saying the OP is an alcoholic or addict, but he had to have outside help in the way of rehab to stop. But you would think that after 30 years clean, the state would take that into consideration.

[The Annoyed Man]

FYI A Neurologist also has to be a psychiatrist, if you see a Neurologist for migraines and such that would be an option!

Not so. A neurologist has to be an MD or a DO. A psychiatrist had to be an MD or a DO. But a neurologist does not have to be a psychiatrist (or visa versa). They are two completely different specialties.

A neurologist is concerned with the body's entire nervous system. I’ve had neurological consults before I had my back surgery because I had numbness in my legs.

A psychiatrist is concerned with the biochemistry of the brain and it’s effects on human behavior.

I worked for a Neurologist for four years, I was told by him that in Texas in order to be a Neurologist he also had to be a pyschiatrist

I’m guessing that he meant that figuratively, not literally, since neurologists frequently have to figure out if a person's nerve pain is real (medical cause) or imagined (mentally caused). Psychiatry is a lot more complex than trying to diagnose psychosomatic pain. But both disciplines have multi-year internships/internships and board certification. If it were literally true that you had to be a psychiatrist before you could be a neurologist, here’s what your career track would look like:

4 years of college
4 years of medical school
1 year of psychiatric internship
3-4 years of psychiatric residency
Pass the psychiatry boards
1 year of neurology internship
3-4 years of neurology residency
Pass the boards

SIX TO EIGHT YEARS of post-medical school study before you could begin your practice, and that doesn’t count any neurology or psychiatry fellowships he or she may choose to enter before practice. Neuro and thoracic surgeons don’t take that long to begin practicing.

[narcissist]

Please explain where it says records beyond 7 years doesn't have to be listed. From what I remember in my application, I had to list "ALL" arrest records and list all rehabs and etc. Maybe I missed this part but I just don't recall.


If he didnt put it down they would of probably not have found it, 30 plus years I can almost guarantee that info is no where to be found. It was 30 plus years ago why write anything down about it, I understand your saying to follow the law to a T, but you see where that gets you at times. If they want a psychiatrist evaluation then Dps should pay for it but it's going to be hard to find a Dr. That will say your fine because if you use your weapon the Dr.could be held liable. I believe it's takes three visits to a psyc. Dr. Before he can "diagnose" you, if most doctors won't prescribe meds anymore to patients there not going to say your fine to carry a gun. There's at least castle law, I hope you figure out a way!

[03Lightningrocks]

Please explain where it says records beyond 7 years doesn't have to be listed. From what I remember in my application, I had to list "ALL" arrest records and list all rehabs and etc. Maybe I missed this part but I just don't recall.


If he didnt put it down they would of probably not have found it, 30 plus years I can almost guarantee that info is no where to be found. It was 30 plus years ago why write anything down about it, I understand your saying to follow the law to a T, but you see where that gets you at times. If they want a psychiatrist evaluation then Dps should pay for it but it's going to be hard to find a Dr. That will say your fine because if you use your weapon the Dr.could be held liable. I believe it's takes three visits to a psyc. Dr. Before he can "diagnose" you, if most doctors won't prescribe meds anymore to patients there not going to say your fine to carry a gun. There's at least castle law, I hope you figure out a way!

I think one problem with not listing it is that it is illegal not to. If you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, the issue could come to light. Then you will have a huge problem.

[Crossroads]

Did they deny/reject your application or did they delay and refer you to the Medical Advisory Board (MAB)? If they referred you to the MAB then you'll get a packet from them with further instructions. Just follow the instructions and you'll be set, it just takes longer unfortunately.

If you don't meet any of the pre-conditions you can see a family doctor instead of a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I think drug addiction was a precondition that required a psychiatrist, but I could be wrong. Read the packet carefully to figure out if you can just see your family doctor.

[narcissist]

If he didnt put it down they would of probably not have found it, 30 plus years I can almost guarantee that info is no where to be found. It was 30 plus years ago why write anything down about it, I understand your saying to follow the law to a T, but you see where that gets you at times. If they want a psychiatrist evaluation then Dps should pay for it but it's going to be hard to find a Dr. That will say your fine because if you use your weapon the Dr.could be held liable. I believe it's takes three visits to a psyc. Dr. Before he can "diagnose" you, if most doctors won't prescribe meds anymore to patients there not going to say your fine to carry a gun. There's at least castle law, I hope you figure out a way!

I think one problem with not listing it is that it is illegal not to. If you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, the issue could come to light. Then you will have a huge problem.

Your definitely right but in a life threatening situation where I need to save my family or others man made Laws will not stop me from doing what needs to be done and what I feel is right. I know probably looking at 20years + but it's either live with guilt of not saving my loved one's or get 3 hots and a cot. Just done want Bubba lol

[clarionite]

There is also the issue of medical coding restrictions. I don't go to the doctor often because I am rarely sick. On those rare occasions when I am there, sometimes I say, "While we are at it..." and I try to broach some additional minor issue, to kill two birds with one stone. Invariably I'm told, "You have to make a separate appointment for that." In other words, pony up a separate massive co-pay.

So if the poster attempts to get around the fee by making a migraine appointment, that might be the resistance that he faces.

I'd get a different doc...

My general practitioner will not only deal with my "While we're at it..." stuff, but will ask me before we're done if there's anything else I need.
Since he was also my mother's GP, often he'll ask how she's doing and if she needs anything.

[greyjack]

If you're eligible, there's no need to lie on your application, not outright and not by omission.

Also, DPS isn't the FBI, but never forget how many people go to prison for lying to the FBI about something that itself isn't a crime.

[ScottDLS]

Please explain where it says records beyond 7 years doesn't have to be listed. From what I remember in my application, I had to list "ALL" arrest records and list all rehabs and etc. Maybe I missed this part but I just don't recall.


If he didnt put it down they would of probably not have found it, 30 plus years I can almost guarantee that info is no where to be found. It was 30 plus years ago why write anything down about it, I understand your saying to follow the law to a T, but you see where that gets you at times. If they want a psychiatrist evaluation then Dps should pay for it but it's going to be hard to find a Dr. That will say your fine because if you use your weapon the Dr.could be held liable. I believe it's takes three visits to a psyc. Dr. Before he can "diagnose" you, if most doctors won't prescribe meds anymore to patients there not going to say your fine to carry a gun. There's at least castle law, I hope you figure out a way!

I think one problem with not listing it is that it is illegal not to. If you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, the issue could come to light. Then you will have a huge problem.

If you go to the law itself with respect to eligibility, there is significant room for interpretation on which questions must be answered and how. I suspect it would be extremely difficult to obtain a criminal prosecution on someone with 30 year old drug/alcohol issues based on their good faith interpretation of whether to include them or not. DPS is not doing us any favors by defaulting to denials based on very old “addiction” evidence. If the legislature intended to only make LTC available to lifelong teetotalers, then they could have put it in the statute.
O

[madwildcat]

OP, can I suggest you read through the following post:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=66576&start=30

While I haven't seen the forms you have to have filled out, I a pretty sure other docs, including family doctors who have known patients for years and do treat psych issues, have been filling these out for years.

Per the post above, it looks like a psychologist could do this as well. The posting mentioned that he talked to his local police station secretary and she was able to point him in the direction of a doc who could do this. I don't think this costed anywhere near $1000 (and I know the family docs don't charge like that).

Hope this helps!

[MaduroBU]

FYI A Neurologist also has to be a psychiatrist, if you see a Neurologist for migraines and such that would be an option!

Neurology and psychiatry are totally separate residencies and fields of medical practice.

[Zachns1234]

My application was sent to the MAB back in 2017 for review because I was honest and told them I was in a drug and alcohol treatment center within 5 years. I received all the paperwork I needed to get filled out by my doctor, went to the doctor and got it all filled out in my favor. Sent it back to the MAB and received a letter a month later I was denied. I called the service division and spoke with the person that handled my application and he stated to me that from what he could see, I was only denied because I received treatment within the past 5 years. So he told me once I passed that 5 year window, to reapply and I should be able to get my license at that point. which would be now in 2019. I will keep the thread updated on what happens because honestly I don't have my hopes up. Once they know you received treatment for drugs and alcohol at any point in your life they appear to be extremely reluctant to issue you a CHL. Even though you qualify according to law.

[Cam2]

After many calls and paperwork submitted by my reg doctor. I am proud to say my license came in today. Follow the process it works. Thanks to all that supplied info when I needed it.