Convince me that constitutional carry is a good thing

[rotor]

All are excellent arguments. Hard to refute either side. The reality of the world is that as much as we would like our unlimited right to constitutional carry I don't think it will happen. For multiple rights we already concede that they are not absolute. By precedent we accepted limits on our rights. Minors and guns, yelling fire, etc. I believe that constitutional carry stands a much better chance of passage with some minimal basic training requirement. Don't forget, we are dealing with legislators and the people they represent. We can try of course taking this to the supreme court but they have certainly put limits on our 2nd amendment rights and as I said with Obamacare, our right to Life without taxation for living, the Obamacare mandate. I still feel more comfortable knowing that when I am in the presence of other people that are carrying they have had some proficiency with a firearm. Your right to carry and my right to feel a level of safety and comfort. Every time I drive on our great highways and see bullet holes in those highway signs I know that there are yahoos out there that don't know gun safety and don't care if their bullet hits a car or house or a person.

I see your point from a pragmatic perspective. But how do you possibly implement this requirement without also requiring some form of licensing or registration? Also, what is unique about the people of Texas that makes you believe we need this provision here? There are several other states that have no such provision. Are those folks more friendly to gun rights than our fellow Texans?

I would also add that every time I hear Nancy Pelosi speak, I realize there are yahoos out there that don't know, or don't care about, the basic principles that underpin our Republic. But I still think they should be allowed to vote. I still contend that such people are infinitely more dangerous than any one person with a gun.

All good arguments. In practical terms though I don't know if we will get constitutional carry without some education certificate or something to that effect. Perhaps having "Veteran" on your drivers license (even though I had no firearm training in my military service aside from watching an AR-15 get fired once). Perhaps requiring everyone have served their country in some manner with a notation "Served" on their DL. Perhaps requiring firearm safety in schools if you were born before a certain date and grandfather old foggies like me. Kind of like hunter safety. As far as yahoos voting, I would impose a standard. I think though you need to go one step at a time on this just like with LTC people and showing how reliable they are with really no open carry/concealed carry problems.

How about this for a possible compromise? If you are carrying and violate some other law, you can get cited for illegal carry. But if you can later supply the court with 2 receipts from a gun range during the preceding 12 month period, those charges are dismissed. Otherwise you face a maximum $100 penalty (more than double what the range sessions would have cost, so a good deterrent). This assumes that you can otherwise legally carry a gun (not a felon, over 21, etc).

That would avoid the need for registration or licensing, and also avoid overzealous cops issuing citations to everyone they see openly carrying.

Works for me. As I said "all good arguments". Now the voting requirement and some level of intelligence.....

[CrashTxVeeDub]

The right winger in me wants full constitutional carry for anyone who can pass the check to buy a firearm.

But the practical centrist in me knows that's either not a great idea and/or just not gonna happen.

One thing I don't like about the current system is the cost. I don't want to see individuals not be able to exercise their right because they can't afford the class or the fees. financial ability should not prohibit one from being allowed to carry a firearm should they legally obtain one.

I think an individual could obtain class materials to study online then a free online LTC test over the material followed by taking your test form to any local range and paying $20 to have someone qualify you. Done. Send in your papers. License fee reduced to $25 administrative fee, free if indigent. Not sure I think fingerprinting is even necessary, NICS check, done.

[truckster]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

[anygunanywhere]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

So rights come with your definition of competency and education?

[Jusme]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

A Constitutional right, is a right, despite training, or competency. No one has to have a degree in journalism, or pass a writing test to exercise their free speech, they do not need a degree in Theology to go to the church of their choice. There is no competency test to be able to be allowed to be free from self incrimination.
For some reason people belive that the 2A is different from the other 9 amendments in the bill of rights, and requires permission to exercise it.

[bigtek]

Despite the usual "blood in the streets" hue and cry, there don't seem to be a lot of actual problems caused by MPA.

[WildBill]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

A Constitutional right, is a right, despite training, or competency. No one has to have a degree in journalism, or pass a writing test to exercise their free speech, they do not need a degree in Theology to go to the church of their choice. There is no competency test to be able to be allowed to be free from self incrimination.
For some reason people belive that the 2A is different from the other 9 amendments in the bill of rights, and requires permission to exercise it.

I think it's like boiling a frog.

[truckster]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

So rights come with your definition of competency and education?

Wow, gentlemen! I thought my post was pretty straight forward.

I'm on the side of Constitutional Carry. I have no idea how some of you are twisting my comment into anything other than that.

Just because we've taken an LTC class doesn't mean we are more prepared than the other guy, that currently doesn't have the right to carry, to defend ourself. Just like someone that took 4 years of liberal arts may not be more prepared for the real world than someone that started digging ditches right out of high school.

[OlBill]

Going back to the Constitution is always a good idea.

[The Annoyed Man]

Going back to the Constitution is always a good idea.

Amen to that.

[LSUTiger]

[s3779m]

I didn't read the entire thread but my simpleton take on the whole thing is this.

Just because someone took a class for something doesn't make them more competent on the subject. I know some complete imbeciles with 4 year degrees from good schools and I'm sure some of you know some dummies who have completed the required course for an LTC that have no business even owning a firearm

So rights come with your definition of competency and education?

Wow, gentlemen! I thought my post was pretty straight forward.

I'm on the side of Constitutional Carry. I have no idea how some of you are twisting my comment into anything other than that.

Just because we've taken an LTC class doesn't mean we are more prepared than the other guy, that currently doesn't have the right to carry, to defend ourself. Just like someone that took 4 years of liberal arts may not be more prepared for the real world than someone that started digging ditches right out of high school.

I agree with you on the right of Constitutional carry, but I was also for open carry and since we now have the right to open carry, the 06 and 07 signs have been exploding all around town. Everyday I get an email listing new businesses which have posted either sign or both. I can see more of the same if constitutional carry is not done correctly. There will , or should be, one heck of a large campaign to educate the public or we could end up seeing even less places to carry in. We all know the ones who wish to ban guns will be out there "educating" the public. As the old saying goes, careful what you wish for. On an unrelated note, I would will to see the 06 and 07 signs with an expiration date, hopefully some businesses would not replace them.

[OlBill]

Interesting video LSUTiger.

He sounds like he believes it was that way from the beginning. If he does, of course he is wrong.

[Oldgringo]

Going back to the Constitution is always a good idea.

Amen to that.

I am not convinced that federal judges should be appointed for life and I also believe there should be definite TERM LIMITS for congressional offices. Other than that....meh.

[OlBill]

Going back to the Constitution is always a good idea.

Amen to that.

I am not convinced that federal judges should be appointed for life and I also believe there should be definite TERM LIMITS for congressional offices. Other than that....meh.

Both of which I believe would require Constitutional amendments, but I could be wrong.

Meh?