Texas State Fair

[txglock21]

I don't plan on going to the fair, but reading all these post, I have a serious question. Instead of waiting to be wanded or announcing that you are carrying, why not just show your LTC to the wanders and then they can direct you to the officer or whatever?

[ScottDLS]

I don't plan on going to the fair, but reading all these post, I have a serious question. Instead of waiting to be wanded or announcing that you are carrying, why not just show your LTC to the wanders and then they can direct you to the officer or whatever?

Because your LTC is double super secret agent stuff, never to be revealed to non-LTC peons like the wander/rent-a-cops. You have to go to the sworn, TCLEOSE qualified, on-duty, officers to get them to verify that your permission slip is valid.

If you reveal your LTC status to any non-LEO that is the same as failing to conceal and you will take the ride even if you have it in a belt or shoulder holster.

[jkurtz]

I don't plan on going to the fair, but reading all these post, I have a serious question. Instead of waiting to be wanded or announcing that you are carrying, why not just show your LTC to the wanders and then they can direct you to the officer or whatever?

I went last Thursday and did exactly that, but it didn't make a difference. They still wanded me allowing everyone in line behind us to hear the loud squelches, then let me on my way. I didn't have to talk to any DPD officers.

[LucasMcCain]

You know, reading everyone's experiences with getting through security at the fair, I keep thinking how much simpler it would be if they just allowed open carry.

Gun on your hip? Talk to the officer. Done.

The idea that open carry is somehow more dangerous or less desirable is just so strange to me. Were I the property owner, I would prefer to know who had guns on my property. I'm not saying I would prohibit concealed carry, but I can understand preferring open carry. Only allowing concealed carry just seems like an "out of sight; out of mind" bury your head in the sand mentality. I don't know; it just seems counter-intuitive to me. Aren't there some states that have constitutional carry, but you are required to carry openly? That makes more sense to me. Anyway, sorry, I'm just rambling now.

[Dragonfighter]

I have been 4 times this year and am more than done. However, security was not an issue. I did wonder about the consequence of the 30.07 sign and its enforce-ability but it really is moot. I am disinclined to openly carry my firearm in South Dallas.

I had also decided I was not going to "volunteer" that I was armed. I had planned to simply deflect a question or say, "I'll work it out with the cop at the gate." As to security, they very carefully avoided my sides wanding my front and back. My badge didn't even set it off even though it has in my left hip pocket. No beeps, a quick, "have a nice day," and I was on my way.

[bpeg93]

Went to the fair last night (10/18/2016) and went through the gate by Gexa Energy Pavilion and it was problem free. The first set of "security" was telling everyone to take everything out of your pockets and as I approached the wand waver I stated that "I need to speak with that gentleman" pointing to the officer in the stand and he said ok and walked me over to the officer and went back to his post and never said anything out loud nor did he say anything to bring attention to myself or my children. Had a great time and tried to thank each and every officer as we were leaving for their service. On a funny note, my middle child won a stuffed donut with sprinkles and as she walked by an officer he said "oooohhhh a DONUT with Sprinkles" which made her laugh.

[JagsfanNtexas]

The family and I went to the fair this morning as it opened. I was carrying my holstered pistol in my right pocket as I walked up to get wanded. The guy lazily wanded my front waste and left side, never really even wanded my right side. My keys and cell phone were in my left pocket and the wand beeped. I proceeded to say "I have..." and he immediately said "cell phone?" I said yes because that's what caused it to beep. He told me I'm good to go. That was that.

Real comforting.

We went again today and carried the same way. Pocket carry in my right pocket and keys and phone in my left. This time the guy did wand both pockets... and the thing never beeped! Maybe he forgot to turn it on, or put batteries in it.

[ScottDLS]

I guess nobody tried carrying concealed into the Fair and then switching to open carry... I didn't go this year, and besides I would have been afraid of "taking the ride". Maybe I'll go open carry in the DMV some time. I don't have to go back until 2020 though...

[Papa_Tiger]

I guess nobody tried carrying concealed into the Fair and then switching to open carry... I didn't go this year, and besides I would have been afraid of "taking the ride". Maybe I'll go open carry in the DMV some time. I don't have to go back until 2020 though...

I open carried when I renewed my DL this year. Nobody paid attention. Nearly everyone around me had their faces in their cell phones.

[timdsmith72]

I don't plan on going to the fair, but reading all these post, I have a serious question. Instead of waiting to be wanded or announcing that you are carrying, why not just show your LTC to the wanders and then they can direct you to the officer or whatever?

I went yesterday and didn't even go to the "wand brigade". I walked over to the officer just to the left of them and showed her my license. She said, "You're good. Enjoy the fair." I walked right in an waited for the rest of my group go through the security theatre line.

[jkurtz]

The family and I went to the fair this morning as it opened. I was carrying my holstered pistol in my right pocket as I walked up to get wanded. The guy lazily wanded my front waste and left side, never really even wanded my right side. My keys and cell phone were in my left pocket and the wand beeped. I proceeded to say "I have..." and he immediately said "cell phone?" I said yes because that's what caused it to beep. He told me I'm good to go. That was that.

Real comforting.

We went again today and carried the same way. Pocket carry in my right pocket and keys and phone in my left. This time the guy did wand both pockets... and the thing never beeped! Maybe he forgot to turn it on, or put batteries in it.

Did you show him your license before being wanded? The wands can usually be adjusted to either beep or to vibrate. If you already showed your license he may have just ignored the vibrating.

[JagsfanNtexas]

The family and I went to the fair this morning as it opened. I was carrying my holstered pistol in my right pocket as I walked up to get wanded. The guy lazily wanded my front waste and left side, never really even wanded my right side. My keys and cell phone were in my left pocket and the wand beeped. I proceeded to say "I have..." and he immediately said "cell phone?" I said yes because that's what caused it to beep. He told me I'm good to go. That was that.

Real comforting.

We went again today and carried the same way. Pocket carry in my right pocket and keys and phone in my left. This time the guy did wand both pockets... and the thing never beeped! Maybe he forgot to turn it on, or put batteries in it.

Did you show him your license before being wanded? The wands can usually be adjusted to either beep or to vibrate. If you already showed your license he may have just ignored the vibrating.

No. If it beeped and I was questioned, I would have. I decided not to show my license first after reading a few other stories on here, particularly one where the wander yelled out that the guy was concealed carrying and needed to be escorted to the officer.

[Dragonfighter]

I don't show my ID to security guards. Back when they were trying to make it too uncomfortable, they would have a "supervisor" come out and take down your information. Some would try to lecture people about carrying in the Stae Fair. I went through that boondoggle once and I was so angry I swore it wuldn't happen again. The next time I demanded HIS ID and took out my own note pad. When he balked I told him the only people who can demand to see my CHL were law enforcement and that if someone was going insist on mine, I would have his. He threatened to not let me in and I said, "fine, let's you and I go talk to that officer over there." He turned three or for shades of red before he cursed and left. DPS spanked Platinum for this and other violations.

Since then, I don't say anything unless it beeps, then I say, "I need to speak with the officer at the gate," and have had no problems. This year, no beeps so no converstations. But I will not show My CHL..re, LTC to any security guards.

[Dallashog]

I just got home from a week in McKinney which included a trip to the State Fair on Saturday. When I arrived at the fair the first thing I noticed was the sign posting 30.07. As my wife and myself walked up to the security guy who was preparing to wand us, I showed him my license and he directed me to a policeman who was posted to our right. The policeman took my license, looked at it for about 10 seconds and said have a good time. Anyway, none of the people working security nor any of the other attendees seemed to freak out that I walked through the gate without being wanded and the police did not seem overly concerned that another gun was coming to the fair. The one positive I noticed inside the fair was a very strong police presence which I am sure made the other fair attendees feel better and safe.

[NotRPB]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

VERY telling that they selectively chose to stop reading after the part of that opinion letter with which they agreed....

Reading on..... https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

The AG appears to agree that the private entity would not be subject to civil penalty per 411.209, however, he also seems to agree that a license holder WOULD have the exceptions described in 30.06 and 30.07, since the property "is owned or leased by a governmental entity".

Now.... Who is volunteering to be the test case?

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice. IANAL.

This opinion creates a loophole that needs to be fixed in the next session.

It doesn't create, it merely points out. A couple of the KP opinions have pointed out areas in the law where there are loopholes that make it difficult for the OAG to prosecute wrongful exclusion claims.

Indirectly related, I saw a tweet with the word "loophole" with "State Fair" ...

FairParkRising ‏@FairParkRising 13m13 minutes ago

FairParkRising Retweeted Common Cause Texas

Bi-partisan support to close the StateFair loophole. @TxFOIFT #txlege

Common Cause Texas
‏@CCauseTexas

Important discussion going on this morning on ethics in #txlege hosted by @TexasTribune

#ttevents

Recent article in Common Cause Texas timeline
big battle going on at City Hall over what to do with Fair Park, the seriously down-at-the-heels 277-acre exposition park in South Dallas where the State Fair of Texas takes place
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/park ... ng-9126205

Park Board Thinks Asking State Fair Tough Questions Is ‘Embaaarassing’
Friday, January 27, 2017 at 4 a.m.