When to show license to LEO...

[crbowers]

I know that if I am pulled over I need to present my CHL to the LEO along with my DL, insurance, and registration.

Also, when an LEO asks for my ID on "official business" I need to present my CHL as well. Correct?

A few buddies and I go to some middle eastern / mediterranean hookah lounges around Dallas and the suburbs for some food and relaxation, and lately a few of these have been posting uniformed local LEOs at the door to ID people entering. I totally understand this as one of the main purposes of these places is to smoke hookah, and you cant sell tobacco to those under 18. If one of the LEOs asks for my ID in this situation is it "official business" and do I have to present my CHL as well?

This really doesn't occour at most of the lounges I go to, but a few of the lower end ones cater to a MUCH younger crowd and it is frequent there; so hopefully I wont have to deal with this, as I dont like the idea of flashing a CHL, even to an LEO, in a crowded area.

Thanks,
Christian

[seamusTX]

A few buddies and I go to some middle eastern / mediterranean hookah lounges around Dallas and the suburbs for some food and relaxation, and lately a few of these have been posting uniformed local LEOs at the door to ID people entering.... If one of the LEOs asks for my ID in this situation is it "official business" and do I have to present my CHL as well?

If you are armed you must show your CHL.

If you are not armed, you are not legally required to show it.

The reason that some instructors say you should display your CHL in traffic stops even if you are not armed is that the police will find out you have a CHL when they run your driver license number. An officer who is merely checking IDs won't get that information.

GC §411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

- Jim

[Abraham]

Has the law changed or am I slipping?

When I got my first CHL, I could swear if an officer stopped me while driving, I didn't HAVE to show my CHL unless requested. In fact, there were some officers who would get huffy because they hadn't requested it if you produced without request. At least, that's what our instructor relayed to us.

So which is it - Automatically produce it with your D.L. or only when it's requested?

P.S. My wife was NOT carrying when about 2 yrs. or so ago she was stopped for a minor traffic violation. She produced her CHL along with her D.L. and the officer told her it was a very good thing she had also produced her CHL or she would've been mighty P.O.'d.

So, it seems both the CHL holders and the law are confused.

(To the officers credit, she encouraged my wife to carry and was concerned for my wife's safety with her traveling without her handgun.)

[Xander]

Has the law changed or am I slipping?

When I got my first CHL, I could swear if an officer stopped me while driving, I didn't HAVE to show my CHL unless requested. In fact, there were some officers who would get huffy because they hadn't requested it if you produced without request. At least, that's what our instructor relayed to us.

So which is it - Automatically produce it with your D.L. or only when it's requested?

Jim posted the actual text of the specific law. Anytime a peace officer requests your identification, if you have your handgun with you, you must present your CHL.

[seamusTX]

So, it seems both the CHL holders and the law are confused.

The law is not confused; it's very clear.

Many people are confused.

We have seen stories of traffic stops where a CHL holder wasn't carrying and didn't hand over his CHL (which is perfectly legal), and the officer reportedly was less than thrilled when he found out the driver had a CHL. (Of course, these stories are always told by the driver involved in the incident.)

That is why some instructors say you should always produce the CHL in a traffic stop.

We have also seen accounts where the officer handed back the CHL without comment.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

I
A few buddies and I go to some middle eastern / mediterranean hookah lounges around Dallas and the suburbs for some food and relaxation, and lately a few of these have been posting uniformed local LEOs at the door to ID people entering. I totally understand this as one of the main purposes of these places is to smoke hookah, and you cant sell tobacco to those under 18. If one of the LEOs asks for my ID in this situation is it "official business" and do I have to present my CHL as well?

YES, if you are carrying.

[xrocket]

Well ..... wait just a minute. If he is (and probably is) a private hire after hours I don't think you are required to show your CHL. At that point he is a private citizen hired to control a door for age violations. It would seem to me you are within your rights to remain concealed.

One of the grey beards ought to pop on and provide testament.

[txinvestigator]

Well ..... wait just a minute. If he is (and probably is) a private hire after hours I don't think you are required to show your CHL. At that point he is a private citizen hired to control a door for age violations. It would seem to me you are within your rights to remain concealed.

One of the grey beards ought to pop on and provide testament.

No, he is a Peace Officer 24/7. He is in uniform, and he is enforcing the law.

[sbb]

My CCH instructor said that it was not necessary to show your CHL if you were not carrying. However, he told us that the LEO would appreciate the knowledge that he would more than likely not have to make a felony arrest and that he would feel more secure knowing that he would continue his patrol without incident

[stevie_d_64]

Its really a simple concept, whether you believe it to be a redundant function of any interaction with Law Enforcement...

On the extremely rare occasion I am not carrying, and I have to identify myself in an official investigation conducted by a law enforcement officer of any jurisdiction or state I carry in...I'm going to be courteous and give them DL and CHL...

If they ask if I am carrying at the time I will give them that truthful answer...

If I go to a hookah bar to relax and socialize, well, thats one of those things you just going to have to endure I suppose...

If you present a presense that is non-chalant, mature and attentive to what they are doing, you shouldn't have any problems...

If you act like a goofball, even with the CHL, you will be treated as such...

I happen to know there will be this nagging question out there if you do notify at a private business to a Law Enforcement official working for them, that they could say to you, "You cannot come in while carrying!" then you have been notified...

Say thanks, turn around and find another hookah bar guys...

Don't let this spoil your evening...

[crbowers]

You guys pretty much summed up what I was thinking. I have no real qualms showing my CHL to an LEO, and I understand why that rule is in place, it's for my protection as well as thiers. I was just unsure if it applied differently to different circumstances; after reading the responses here and re-reading the rules, I see that it applies to when ever an LEO asks you for ID and you are armed.

[Abraham]

Yes, some people are confused as to when they have to produce their CHL. You may get varying responses to this question by intelligent, well intentioned CHL holders.

So, when carrying only, if I.D. or D.L. is requested by an LEO, we CHLers have an obligation to show our CHL. Understood. Which, I have no qualms about doing. Why would anyone who is a law abiding citizen?

My confusion existed because I thought one didn't HAVE to produce it if unarmed and that it was the CHLer's OPTION to show it as a courtesy if so chooses.

And please forgive me for being dense, but posting the exact wording of laws as they exist on the books isn't always illuminating for me. (I suspect I'm not alone)

In fact, such arcane wording very often needs interpretation by a plain speaking lawyer for the average citizen to comprehend.

If I sound a bit frustrated, I am, but not in any person's direction.

I think, (maybe I'm wrong too) we have two schools of thought on producing our CHL when it's not required by law. Those who do it automatically as a courtesy and those who'd rather not if it's not absolutely required by law.

Am I wrong?

[srothstein]

So, when carrying only, if I.D. or D.L. is requested by an LEO, we CHLers have an obligation to show our CHL. Understood. Which, I have no qualms about doing. Why would anyone who is a law abiding citizen?

You are correct on this. ONLY when carrying (under any authority) are you required to produce your CHL for the LEO who asks.

My confusion existed because I thought one didn't HAVE to produce it if unarmed and that it was the CHLer's OPTION to show it as a courtesy if so chooses.

Let me try to clear up the confusion. The law does not require you to produce the CHL when you are not armed. Most of us advise you to do it anyway to avoid any confusion with the officer. Short version: You are not required to but are advised to.

[CHLSteve]

I think the safer side to err on this issue would be to show your CHL to any LEO at the same time you were asked for ID. What's the worst that could happen? Nothing...

And if you DIDN'T show, what's the worst that could happen? Oh yeah, bad things...

[frankie_the_yankee]

I think the safer side to err on this issue would be to show your CHL to any LEO at the same time you were asked for ID. What's the worst that could happen? Nothing...

And if you DIDN'T show, what's the worst that could happen? Oh yeah, bad things...

That's what I do. For the exact reasons you stated.

Well put.