Texas State Fair

[Papa_Tiger]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

VERY telling that they selectively chose to stop reading after the part of that opinion letter with which they agreed....

Reading on..... https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

The AG appears to agree that the private entity would not be subject to civil penalty per 411.209, however, he also seems to agree that a license holder WOULD have the exceptions described in 30.06 and 30.07, since the property "is owned or leased by a governmental entity".

Now.... Who is volunteering to be the test case?

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice. IANAL.

This opinion creates a loophole that needs to be fixed in the next session.

It doesn't create, it merely points out. A couple of the KP opinions have pointed out areas in the law where there are loopholes that make it difficult for the OAG to prosecute wrongful exclusion claims.

[TVGuy]

this is also partial text from the "bigtex.com" website...... (I guess their explanation????)

...."the Fair has decided to prohibit open carry, while continuing to allow concealed carry. This decision is consistent with an August 9, 2016 opinion letter issued by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, in which the Attorney General confirmed that the law which prohibits the government from banning handguns from most government property (Texas Government Code 411.209) applies only to bans implemented by the government and does not override the rights of a private entity that happens to operate on property leased from the government. In that situation, the private entity is no different than any other business operating on private property........"

VERY telling that they selectively chose to stop reading after the part of that opinion letter with which they agreed....

Reading on..... https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... kp0108.pdf

The AG appears to agree that the private entity would not be subject to civil penalty per 411.209, however, he also seems to agree that a license holder WOULD have the exceptions described in 30.06 and 30.07, since the property "is owned or leased by a governmental entity".

Now.... Who is volunteering to be the test case?

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice. IANAL.

This opinion creates a loophole that needs to be fixed in the next session.

It doesn't create, it merely points out. A couple of the KP opinions have pointed out areas in the law where there are loopholes that make it difficult for the OAG to prosecute wrongful exclusion claims.

Touché'. Nevertheless, my point remains the same.

[AZZMIE]

Back in April of 2016, their website stated it was permitted to open carry. Recently, they have changed their minds. I would like to know what or who influenced the State Fair of TEXAS, a celebration of the best state in the world, to disallow open carrying of firearms, the best law passed in over 200 years. I would just like to hear a reasonable explanation from whomever made this final decision. If anyone knows who this person is, please let me know. I want to contact him and ask him for this explanation.
Thank you.

[G.A. Heath]

Back in April of 2016, their website stated it was permitted to open carry. Recently, they have changed their minds. I would like to know what or who influenced the State Fair of TEXAS, a celebration of the best state in the world, to disallow open carrying of firearms, the best law passed in over 200 years. I would just like to hear a reasonable explanation from whomever made this final decision. If anyone knows who this person is, please let me know. I want to contact him and ask him for this explanation.
Thank you.

It's not a who, it's a what. The recent AG opinion that private entities leasing public property could post led to this decision. Now we need to adjust the fines for signs law so that private entities are liable if they post public property and/or provide a mechanism to require that all leases prohibit such postings.

[C-dub]

IMH non-lawyer opinion, the AG opinion did create this mess and I'm not sure a loophole exists at all. The city is still responsible for what happens on it's property, no? The city would be a part of any lawsuit or claim as a result of any injury that occurred at the fair. However, it would be nice to be clarified next year. Also, IMHO this would apply to all cities that lease their property or allow another party to manage it.

NO,I'm not willing to be a test case and I'm considering putting that in my signature line.

[txyaloo]

It's interesting that most of these contracts have clauses saying the leasing entity will follow all laws. I've seen it in the HLSR contracts. It would seem those statements would preclude the private entity from posting or enforcing 30.06/07.

[JagsfanNtexas]

The family and I went to the fair this morning as it opened. I was carrying my holstered pistol in my right pocket as I walked up to get wanded. The guy lazily wanded my front waste and left side, never really even wanded my right side. My keys and cell phone were in my left pocket and the wand beeped. I proceeded to say "I have..." and he immediately said "cell phone?" I said yes because that's what caused it to beep. He told me I'm good to go. That was that.

Real comforting.

[Jago668]

The family and I went to the fair this morning as it opened. I was carrying my holstered pistol in my right pocket as I walked up to get wanded. The guy lazily wanded my front waste and left side, never really even wanded my right side. My keys and cell phone were in my left pocket and the wand beeped. I proceeded to say "I have..." and he immediately said "cell phone?" I said yes because that's what caused it to beep. He told me I'm good to go. That was that.

Real comforting.

I was there today and didn't get wanded at all.

[Bruin98]

The wanding at the fair is a joke. My wife set if off three times and dude just moved on to next person.

He got irritated when I bypassed him for the officer right behind him. The officer had to yell at him that she already cleared me.

Livestock buildings are all posted if you come out.

[pushpullpete]

Arrived first thing this morning as the fair opened, security asked ahead for everyone to please remove metals from your pockets such as keys, cell phones etc. When my turn came to step forward I politely said 'Morning, I would like to speak to that gentleman over there please' indicating the DPD officer in the mini tower next to the entry gates. She (not real quietly) asked me if I was carrying, when I said I was she told the remaining people in line that she would be right back and walked me over to the officer. A pleasant exchange w the officer while showing my license after which we enjoyed our day at the Texas State Fair. Other than one too many 'fried snickers', a great day was had by kids & grandkids all.
What a Great place to live and a Great (if slightly weird) time to live here.

[PackinPig]

My girlfriend and I went on Friday the 14th. I just walked over to the Dallas Officer in a small tower to the left of the "wand wavers" and handed her my LTC and she let me walk right in.

[RoyGBiv]

.. Forget it

[PackinPig]

My girlfriend and I decided to take our annual trip to the State Fair of Texas on Friday the 14th. So, I thought I would share a little insight into our trip and how everything worked while carrying concealed at the fair for the first time.
Although I hate public transportation, we decided that since parking is so expensive we would ride the Dart train to save a little money and avoid traffic.
We hopped on the train and found some seats in the front train car and settled in. We put up with some loud mouth guy flapping his gums to somebody on the other end of his cell phone and then finally arrived at fair park.
We exited the train and walked through the front of the park up to where the "wand wavers" were standing. My girlfriend got in line to be scanned and I approached a Dallas Police Officer sitting in a small tower just to the left. I asked how she was doing as I handed her my LTC. She glanced at it, replied "good" and then sent me down a crudely barricaded path toward the ticket booth, completely avoiding the "wand wavers". I looked over to see my girlfriend was being scanned and saw the female "wand waver" quickly swipe the wand in front of my girlfriend's lower abdomen and then send her in.
I know that "wand wavers" are often care free in their craft but my girlfriend could have smuggled in an arsenal and this lady would have completely missed it. I have to say it was very comforting (sarcasm) for us to see/experience this laughable attempt at securing a highly populated event. It makes me thankful that I have the ability to legally carry a firearm being that any POS could easily walk in with theirs illegally.
All security issues aside we had a good time. We were able to get a turkey leg and try a few other fried foods, my favorite being the fried pecan pie.
We ended up cutting out around 5pm and rode a crowded dart train back to the station where we had parked our vehicle.
I like to avoid large crowds and large events but I'm not about to lock myself in my house and avoid all fun.

[Deitz83]

I saw the 30.07 sign when I arrived. The guy scanned my wife. When I stepped up, I told him that I had " Betsy" with me. He asked me to go over to the officer. I showed him my license, he said "enjoy the fair".

[tenke56]

I went to the fair with my wife and kids on Friday. They have 30.07 signs at every entrance and even to the fair ground parking lots. They had the people with wands before you got to the ticket booth. They wanded me and kept on hitting on my weapon and I mentioned I was concealed and the two wanders proceeded to have a discussion what to do and one of them practically yelled "He's concealed. He need to go to the police.". I thanked them for yelling to everyone that I was carrying concealed as if I wanted everyone to know, I would be open carrying. They looked at me like I was speaking Russian to them. I went to the officer and he let me in. The security company in charge of wanding really needs to train their personnel properly.