Clarification on school property

[brokedown48]

First off, I hope this post is where it needs to be posted. I need some help understanding where it's legal to carry on school property, (if anywhere) I thought it was legal to carry On (concealed, on sidewalks, driveway) but not In (buildings), I read something the other day, that totally confused me, but I cant remember where. Also , this is what really got me to wondering, I had to take my nieces calf to the new Ag barn in Alvin, I almost forgot to disarm & leave in my truck, would It have been legal if I hadn't disarmed. I was only in parking lot, never went inside buildings, property is behind fence, but gate was open. Clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Howard

[C-dub]

You're interpretation is correct and I think you would have been okay as long as you did not enter into any buildings like you said. This was not a sporting event, but was it some other type of "event" that was sponsored by the school and is the Ag barn owned or controlled by the school?

[JMod45]

I would like clarification on this subject as well. My CHL class instructor told us that it was a gray area, and he had not received a definitive answer from anyone on the subject. I live right next to an elementary school, and end up walking though the parking lot all the time, so it would be nice to know.

[C-dub]

I would like clarification on this subject as well. My CHL class instructor told us that it was a gray area, and he had not received a definitive answer from anyone on the subject. I live right next to an elementary school, and end up walking though the parking lot all the time, so it would be nice to know.

Walking through the parking lot is just fine for someone with an LTC or CHL as long as there is not some other activity like band practice or some other activity other than pick up or drop off going on. However, I think openly carrying is still prohibited, whether or not a school sponsored event is taking place on school grounds, but I'm not certain on this part.

[JMod45]

Walking through the parking lot is just fine for someone with an LTC or CHL as long as there is not some other activity like band practice or some other activity other than pick up or drop off going on. However, I think openly carrying is still prohibited, whether or not a school sponsored event is taking place on school grounds, but I'm not certain on this part.

I was pretty sure open carry was prohibited, which also applies to universities. Concealed I have always been curious about. I never go on the school grounds or parking lot while people are there, its usually after hours, so I don't worry too much about it.

[Soccerdad1995]

Walking through the parking lot is just fine for someone with an LTC or CHL as long as there is not some other activity like band practice or some other activity other than pick up or drop off going on. However, I think openly carrying is still prohibited, whether or not a school sponsored event is taking place on school grounds, but I'm not certain on this part.

I was pretty sure open carry was prohibited, which also applies to universities. Concealed I have always been curious about. I never go on the school grounds or parking lot while people are there, its usually after hours, so I don't worry too much about it.

Are y'all referring to open carry of long guns, where an LTC would not apply? For an LTC holder with a handgun, then OC is the same as CC in this case, I believe.

[JMod45]

i do think open carry is different in this instance. This is what I just read in the penal code:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:

(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or

(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;

The first part I marked in section B would tell me it only applies to concealed.
The second highlight tells me it is only talking about college campuses anyway.

So in this section, the "unless (B)" statement, is only applying to colleges (this is the "Effective August 1st" wording). So the way I read this, it is not legal to have a weapon on the physical premises of a school.

I haven't read through the whole code looking for this, and this is my interpretation. Is there another part that disqualifies this portion if you have a license?

[locke_n_load]

There is no difference for open or concealed carry for an LTC holder on regular (not college) school property. You can carry outside of buildings on school property as long as no school activity is going on in that area. It has been debated whether or not student pick up/drop off is a school activity or not.
Open Carry is banned on college property, period, and that is what the section of the law you have selected is talking about.

[C-dub]

There is no difference for open or concealed carry for an LTC holder on regular (not college) school property. You can carry outside of buildings on school property as long as no school activity is going on in that area. It has been debated whether or not student pick up/drop off is a school activity or not.
Open Carry is banned on college property, period, and that is what the section of the law you have selected is talking about.

It has been debated, but I thought the state AG declared that it is not a school sponsored activity and therefore carry is not prohibited.

[JMod45]

There is no difference for open or concealed carry for an LTC holder on regular (not college) school property. You can carry outside of buildings on school property as long as no school activity is going on in that area. It has been debated whether or not student pick up/drop off is a school activity or not.
Open Carry is banned on college property, period, and that is what the section of the law you have selected is talking about.

Re-reading the code, I think you are correct. I tried reading it like this, just reading the bold:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:

Then my question was, what is the definition of physical premises, which I found this under 46.035:

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

I prefer to be concealed, especially around the school, but I don't see any discrepancies between OC and CC mentioned.

[locke_n_load]

There is no difference for open or concealed carry for an LTC holder on regular (not college) school property. You can carry outside of buildings on school property as long as no school activity is going on in that area. It has been debated whether or not student pick up/drop off is a school activity or not.
Open Carry is banned on college property, period, and that is what the section of the law you have selected is talking about.

It has been debated, but I thought the state AG declared that it is not a school sponsored activity and therefore carry is not prohibited.

I have read most of the AG letters that relate, and I could not find anywhere where he described that pick-up or drop-off was or wasn't a school sponsored activity (I would think that it is, since you have buses run by the school, but like I said, it has been debated and I haven't heard a real good argument either way). If you have the AG letter number that contains something about that, I would love to read it.

[C-dub]

There is no difference for open or concealed carry for an LTC holder on regular (not college) school property. You can carry outside of buildings on school property as long as no school activity is going on in that area. It has been debated whether or not student pick up/drop off is a school activity or not.
Open Carry is banned on college property, period, and that is what the section of the law you have selected is talking about.

It has been debated, but I thought the state AG declared that it is not a school sponsored activity and therefore carry is not prohibited.

I have read most of the AG letters that relate, and I could not find anywhere where he described that pick-up or drop-off was or wasn't a school sponsored activity (I would think that it is, since you have buses run by the school, but like I said, it has been debated and I haven't heard a real good argument either way). If you have the AG letter number that contains something about that, I would love to read it.

The opinion, if there really is one, would have been from years ago. I did not save it because I figured it settled the matter and do not have it readily available. There's also the chance that I am mistaken about its existence.

It is an activity that takes place at a school, but I do not think it rises to the level of a school "sponsored" event like band practice or something similar.

[casp625]

This was clarified end of 2015 in KP-0050:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/op ... kp0050.pdf

The question whether, and where on school grounds, a school-sponsored activity is
occurring involves the resolution of fact questions that are beyond the purview of an attorney
general opinion. Tex. Att'y Gen. Op. No. GA-0827 (2010) at 2 ("This office does not determine
questions of fact in an attorney general opinion .... "). For instance, if a high school utilizes a
school parking lot for a band rehearsal, that parking lot would likely fall within the scope of
subsection 46.03(a)(l), prohibiting weapons during the time of the rehearsal. Yet, the other
parking areas at the school where school activities are not occurring would not fall within
subsection 46.03(a)(l) and would not be places where weapons are prohibited. See Tex. Att'y
Gen. Op. No. DM-363 (1995) at 4 (recognizing that a concern before the Legislature in excluding
parking lots and other similar areas from "premises" was to make it not a crime for a person with
a concealed handgun to drive into the driveway of a place where handguns were prohibited).

[locke_n_load]

This was clarified end of 2015 in KP-0050:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/op ... kp0050.pdf

The question whether, and where on school grounds, a school-sponsored activity is
occurring involves the resolution of fact questions that are beyond the purview of an attorney
general opinion. Tex. Att'y Gen. Op. No. GA-0827 (2010) at 2 ("This office does not determine
questions of fact in an attorney general opinion .... "). For instance, if a high school utilizes a
school parking lot for a band rehearsal, that parking lot would likely fall within the scope of
subsection 46.03(a)(l), prohibiting weapons during the time of the rehearsal. Yet, the other
parking areas at the school where school activities are not occurring would not fall within
subsection 46.03(a)(l) and would not be places where weapons are prohibited. See Tex. Att'y
Gen. Op. No. DM-363 (1995) at 4 (recognizing that a concern before the Legislature in excluding
parking lots and other similar areas from "premises" was to make it not a crime for a person with
a concealed handgun to drive into the driveway of a place where handguns were prohibited).

How does that clear it up? I was stating that I would think school buses picking up or dropping off students would indeed be a school sponsored activity, making LTC carry (out of vehicle) in that area off limits. The band practice in the parking lot statement seems to back up what I am saying.
I am hoping I am wrong, but have not seen good evidence to really prove it.

[casp625]

Because the AG doesn't rule on "matter of facts." Either an activity is school sponsored or it isn't. Otherwise, the legislature would have to come up with an by-item list of what is considered school sponsored.