Son had a weird encounter at Walmart

[TreyHouston]

I was caught stealing cigarettes when i was 17 and got a "lifetime ban" from ALL Walmarts the security guy said. I was NOT arrested and no LEO was involved, no ticket or fine.

I was back in the same store the next day buying stuff. IF you think ANYONE ever remembers you then you are just ... full of yourself!!!!!

Willing to bet your LTC on that ?

YES! i choose to live my life rather than live in fear

[Keith B]

1. Walmart Corporate's policy is to follow local law on the carry of firearms. This has been discussed here many times.

And local law says they can tell you to leave.

2. If you or anyone you know has worked at Walmart, you should be aware that they just barely authorize their employees to breath the air in their stores. It isn't Sam Walton's Walmart any more. Employees are empowered to do nothing any more, unless you're some level of manager.

Well, I haven't, and don't really know anyone who does. With that, I don't know their policy, so no matter what store I go into if an employee advises that I can't do something in their store, I will assume they have the authority to do so until I possibly later confirm it with store management or corporate. I personally would not want to bet my LTC that a Judge wouldn't say an employee had 'apparent' authority to tell you to not open carry.

[Oldgringo]

I'll go along with what Kieth B says above. Now that that's out of the way, I've been in Walmarts all over the southern and western parts of the country and I ain't seen an honest to goodness "Security Guard" in one yet.

[Pawpaw]

It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't have a problem with that. It happens among the best of friends.

If I understand the new law correctly, I wouldn't be betting my LTC. I would only be betting a $200 fine, at most. Losing wouldn't be fun, but there wouldn't be any lasting consequence.

[mojo84]

It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't have a problem with that. It happens among the best of friends.

If I understand the new law correctly, I wouldn't be betting my LTC. I would only be betting a $200 fine, at most. Losing wouldn't be fun, but there wouldn't be any lasting consequence.

Once you receive effective notice from the greeter, it's no longer just a $200 fine. Your LTC would be at risk once you ignore the greeter and do not leave.

Speculating about whatever authority one thinks Wal-Mart grants their employees is foolhardy. While one may have seen their policy, they also leave a certain amount of discretion up to local management.

[cbunt1]

Let's not forget we're talking about oral 30.07 and/or 30.06 notification to a 17yo.

My point being that the 30.06 and 30.07 forms of trespass are only applicable to individuals licensed under Government Code 411, subchapter H. Therefore, the remedies under PC 30.06 and 30.07 are not available against anyone who is *NOT* licensed.

Clearly a 17yo cannot be licensed under Government Code 411 Subchapter H (License to Carry a Handgun).

Therefore a 17yo cannot receive effective notice under PC 30.06 or 30.07 under any circumstance, IMO.

As such, when/if he obtains an LTC at 21 (or 18, if in the Military) I think he's good to go.

That said, I'm NOT a lawyer, I DON'T play one on TV, and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

But I do think that's food for thought, and I am stirring the pot just a bit :)

And yes, I can see a Wal-Mart security guard jumping to conclusions or "starting something" especially over a Buck knife in a scabbard...over the years I've had more hassles over cased Buck knives on my belt than I have EVER had over handguns. Although why he would jump to the conclusion that it's a pistol is anybody's guess. Go figure.

[Soccerdad1995]

I find the story hard to believe, since Walmart is famously recognized to accept legal handgun carry in their stores. The fact that the store manager was not called to double check policy makes it even harder to believe. Rant and rave all you want, but to me this is a report of hearsay, and you know how often that is misinterpreted. I am not calling anyone a liar but this one side of the story and there is a good chance that it is not the whole of the true story. If I am wrong then I apologize.

I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that a Wal-Mart security guard could be grossly incompetent in a variety of ways, including a complete and total misunderstanding of company policy. I mean, we are talking about someone who presumably could not get a job in law enforcement, and then also could not get a security guard job at a number of other, preferable employers. For this reason alone, I do not find this story hard to believe.

LOL I guess I find it hard to believe for the same reason you think a Walmart security guard (or was it a greeter) can't get a better job. I appreciate anyone who does honest work, even if it is picking up cans.

Like I said when I look at history and realize this is second hand hearsay, I will need both sides of the story or non-story. (I try to do as little business with Walmart when given a choice).

I may be reading too much between the lines of your post, but I want to make it clear that I absolutely appreciate anyone who does honest work. If someone is doing a job, then I naturally assume that they cannot get a better job, because any sane, rational, person would choose the best job they could get. That in no way means that I do not appreciate the job that someone is currently doing. And yes, I know that there sometimes are external factors such as physical or schedule limitations that make it impossible to take what would otherwise be considered a "better" job.

All that said, based on my personal experience I do not find it hard to believe that a Wal-Mart employee made a mistake in this case. I have seen that happen to one degree or another on a substantial percentage of my Wal-Mart visits.

[jerry_r60]

Ok, I don't mean to sound argumentative or stupid buy any means but then what is the point of having legal notices denying entry if all that is required to make it an illegal action is to have an employee say "you can't carry in here" even IF company policy states it is acceptable with LTC verification?

As someone already stated, it's how the law reads however there is some logic to it. You can agree or disagree but here are some thoughts on how it makes sense.

Having a legal sign is just a legal "option" on how to communicate to someone carrying not to enter. This allows the establishment to avoid the "confrontation" or worry about someone in the store communicating the wrong message. The sign is a way to deal with the argument that an employee would be uncomfortable having to approach a patron with a weapon to kick them out. This also makes it clear right at the door for the carrier so he/she is not half way through shopping and then has to put everything down and leave.

There are other options for notice in the law, the sign is just one.
From section 30.06
"(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication."

so oral or written. Written is further defined as the sign or:
"(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following:  “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder withof license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”

[remington79]

I've been to Walmarts in different parts of the country and at different times and I have never seen a guard in one. Was the guy even legitimate?

[Smokey613]

I have only been to one Walmart, which has two security guards at each entrance! Is Walmart becoming the new criminal hotspot for certain areas?!

Maybe... http://www.policeone.com/investigations ... in-on-PDs/

[Liberty]

I may be reading too much between the lines of your post, but I want to make it clear that I absolutely appreciate anyone who does honest work. If someone is doing a job, then I naturally assume that they cannot get a better job, because any sane, rational, person would choose the best job they could get. That in no way means that I do not appreciate the job that someone is currently doing.

As a recently retired person, I find this to be a little presumptuous especially for some older .. I retired even though I have the ability to keep on. My old job could be a little stressful and I had the ability to live my chosen lifestyle without having to go to my old job. Maybe some day I might want to go back to work for a little extra pin money. I might be capable of working a job like my old job, but I don't foresee working the kind of hours and pressures when my lifestyle doesn't need that kind of money any more. Some young Moms might serve tables on weekends rather than teach so they can spend more time with family. I knew soldiers who got out for the same reasons. I knew this one guy once who was a retired aerospace engineer, He pumped gas for a couple hours every weekend. He told me he did it just to meet with the people. He was perfectly capable of getting more significant work, but He enjoyed being retired .

Making the most money or most prestigious job isn't the most important thing to everyone. Lifestyle might be though.

[KLB]

Maybe some day I might want to go back to work for a little extra pin money. I might be capable of working a job like my old job, but I don't foresee working the kind of hours and pressures when my lifestyle doesn't need that kind of money any more.

I'm retired, but I do a little contract work. Bringing in enough income to keep me in ammo and cigars smooths things over with management.

[WildBill]

Maybe some day I might want to go back to work for a little extra pin money. I might be capable of working a job like my old job, but I don't foresee working the kind of hours and pressures when my lifestyle doesn't need that kind of money any more.

I'm retired, but I do a little contract work. Bringing in enough income to keep me in ammo and cigars smooths things over with management.

Management??

I thought you said that you are retired.

[WildBill]

I may be reading too much between the lines of your post, but I want to make it clear that I absolutely appreciate anyone who does honest work. If someone is doing a job, then I naturally assume that they cannot get a better job, because any sane, rational, person would choose the best job they could get. That in no way means that I do not appreciate the job that someone is currently doing.

As a recently retired person, I find this to be a little presumptuous especially for some older .. I retired even though I have the ability to keep on. My old job could be a little stressful and I had the ability to live my chosen lifestyle without having to go to my old job. Maybe some day I might want to go back to work for a little extra pin money. I might be capable of working a job like my old job, but I don't foresee working the kind of hours and pressures when my lifestyle doesn't need that kind of money any more. Some young Moms might serve tables on weekends rather than teach so they can spend more time with family. I knew soldiers who got out for the same reasons. I knew this one guy once who was a retired aerospace engineer, He pumped gas for a couple hours every weekend. He told me he did it just to meet with the people. He was perfectly capable of getting more significant work, but He enjoyed being retired .

Making the most money or most prestigious job isn't the most important thing to everyone. Lifestyle might be though.

A friend of mine has worked in the semiconductor business for the last 30 years and has earned a lot of money over the years.
She has been a "single mother" for 20 years and now both of her daughters have graduated from college, have good jobs and are married.
This month she decided that she had enough of the long hours, high pressure and competitive back-stabbing office politics in the electronics business.
She decided leave this industry to take a position in healthcare where she thinks she can make a more positive contribution to the community.
Her salary will be half of what she used to make. I wish her well.

[WildBill]

I may be reading too much between the lines of your post, but I want to make it clear that I absolutely appreciate anyone who does honest work. If someone is doing a job, then I naturally assume that they cannot get a better job, because any sane, rational, person would choose the best job they could get. That in no way means that I do not appreciate the job that someone is currently doing.

As a recently retired person, I find this to be a little presumptuous especially for some older .. I retired even though I have the ability to keep on. My old job could be a little stressful and I had the ability to live my chosen lifestyle without having to go to my old job. Maybe some day I might want to go back to work for a little extra pin money. I might be capable of working a job like my old job, but I don't foresee working the kind of hours and pressures when my lifestyle doesn't need that kind of money any more. Some young Moms might serve tables on weekends rather than teach so they can spend more time with family. I knew soldiers who got out for the same reasons. I knew this one guy once who was a retired aerospace engineer, He pumped gas for a couple hours every weekend. He told me he did it just to meet with the people. He was perfectly capable of getting more significant work, but He enjoyed being retired .

Making the most money or most prestigious job isn't the most important thing to everyone. Lifestyle might be though.

A friend of mine has worked in the semiconductor business for the last 30 years and has earned a lot of money over the years.
She has been a "single mother" for 20 years and now both of her daughters have graduated from college, have good jobs and are married.
This month she decided that she had enough of the long hours, high pressure and competitive back-stabbing office politics in the electronics business.
She decided leave this industry to take a position in healthcare where she thinks she can make a more positive contribution to the community.
Her salary will be half of what she used to make. I wish her well.

About the OP and the security guard. I don't know if the notice was effective or not.
If it happened to me, I would talk to a "real manager" and straighten things out.