How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

[MadMonkey]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

1. If you have the ability to safely leave the light (i.e. without putting someone else in danger), do it. Make a right, cross the intersection, anything to avoid someone who is coming at you in a threatening manner.

2. Barring that, do NOT leave your vehicle. It very, very rarely goes well when both parties "take it outside". You're leaving a somewhat secure location for zero benefit; there would have to be multiple reasons for me to do so.

Once you leave your vehicle and get into an argument/fistfight, at a stoplight no less, it's going to be harder and harder to convince me that you're not just as guilty as the other guy.

Always think de-escalation.

[oljames3]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

1. If you have the ability to safely leave the light (i.e. without putting someone else in danger), do it. Make a right, cross the intersection, anything to avoid someone who is coming at you in a threatening manner.

2. Barring that, do NOT leave your vehicle. It very, very rarely goes well when both parties "take it outside". You're leaving a somewhat secure location for zero benefit; there would have to be multiple reasons for me to do so.

Once you leave your vehicle and get into an argument/fistfight, at a stoplight no less, it's going to be harder and harder to convince me that you're not just as guilty as the other guy.

Always think de-escalation.

[WildBill]

Agreeing with Javier.......why were you out of your car?

This was a hypothetical case so he didn't actually get out of his car.

[Javier730]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

1. If you have the ability to safely leave the light (i.e. without putting someone else in danger), do it. Make a right, cross the intersection, anything to avoid someone who is coming at you in a threatening manner.

2. Barring that, do NOT leave your vehicle. It very, very rarely goes well when both parties "take it outside". You're leaving a somewhat secure location for zero benefit; there would have to be multiple reasons for me to do so.

Once you leave your vehicle and get into an argument/fistfight, at a stoplight no less, it's going to be harder and harder to convince me that you're not just as guilty as the other guy.

Always think de-escalation.

Getting out of your car is a bad idea for so many reasons. The guy might have buddies following him that can come up behind you, other drivers might panic and try and drive away at the sight of you holding the guy at gunpoint which could cause an accident or get you run over, a LEO might pass by and see you pointing a gun at someone, the guy can pull out his own gun, etc.

All getting out does is increase the chances of a physical confrontation and something bad happening. Holding the guy at gunpoint may also not be as easy as it sounds. That often doesnt even work for police.

If you do have to shoot the guy, it should be because you had no way of getting away in your vehicle and because the guy was punching through your window to pull you out (you said he approached unarmed).

[lildave40]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

I am by far no means a pro on CHL nor a lawyer, but if you ask me this sounds like your the one being the aggressor. Let me explain my thoughts and I am known to be wrong so anyone please feel free to correct me.

Not once do you mention trying to deescalating the situation. You may be right but a simple I am sorry sir goes a long way. If you did try was there an out? IE were you blocked in and could not get away from the situation.
Why would you get out of your car if you saw he had no weapon? Were you trying to prove a point your right and he was wrong?
Why did you let him get so close to you that he could hit you? Were you both in each other faces cursing at each other?
You draw your gun because you were knocked to the ground? Before you answer you clearly state he Approached without a weapon.

Now think about this with your Hypothetical situation.

Behind you is a couple lets say in there mid 40s all they see is him approach you cursing. You get out and start cursing back. Then boom your punched in the face and knocked to the ground. You pull your gun on the guy and cursing at him to freeze while you stumble for your phone to call the cops, but what you dont know is the couple who is watching this is already on the phone with 911 and are reporting a guy who was in an argument just pulled a gun! Please get the cops here! So the cops show up Separate you two and now it is his word against yours. All there is is the eyewitness that all he knows is two guys got into a fist fight and the loser pulled a gun on the guy who did not have a gun.

Do you think it is justifiable?

[Redneck_Buddha]

Agreeing with Javier.......why were you out of your car?

Hypothetically. :)

[WildBill]

Agreeing with Javier.......why were you out of your car?

Hypothetically. :)

[GlassG19]

I would suggest not stepping out of your vehicle at all. Roll up your windows, have your firearm low and ready if you believe you might need it and try to get away safely when you get a chance. I see no reason to step out.

The only reason one would step out is to have a verbal or physical altercation with the other guy.

[WildBill]

I would suggest not stepping out of your vehicle at all. Roll up your windows, have your firearm low and ready if you believe you might need it and try to get away safely when you get a chance. I see no reason to step out.

The only reason one would step out is to have a verbal or physical altercation with the other guy.

Getting out of the car could be interpreted as escalating the confrontation.

[GlassG19]

I would suggest not stepping out of your vehicle at all. Roll up your windows, have your firearm low and ready if you believe you might need it and try to get away safely when you get a chance. I see no reason to step out.

The only reason one would step out is to have a verbal or physical altercation with the other guy.

Getting out of the car could be interpreted as escalating the confrontation.

also on what WildBill said here, I would think getting out of vehicle to confront would be a thin line I wouldn't want to walk.

[Pawpaw]

The very first Texas CHL-involved shooting happened in Dallas. In traffic, two trucks hit their mirrors together. One guy decided to get out and teach the other (the CHL) a lesson.

The CHL did the smart thing by staying in his vehicle with the windows up and the doors locked. This merely infuriated the first guy, so he broke the window, reached in and started beating the CHL. The CHL pulled out his handgun and put one .40 S&W (I think) round right in the middle of his chest. The CHL wound up with some permanent injuries, including a broken eye socket.

Although the media tried to crucify the CHL, the grand jury no billed him. If he had gotten out of his vehicle, the outcome MIGHT have been different.

Edit: Here are the articles, first about the shooting and second about being no billed. I was wrong about his window being up.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/23/us/tr ... n-law.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-21/ ... grand-jury

[Javier730]

One situation I could see were one may be caught outside of their vehicle with an aggressive person is after a fender bender. People tend to go a check on their vehicles and they usually check if the other person involved is alright.

Other than this, I don't see myself being outside of my truck, in traffic and being attacked by person.

[Jusme]

The very first Texas CHL-involved shooting happened in Dallas. In traffic, two trucks hit their mirrors together. One guy decided to get out and teach the other (the CHL) a lesson.

The CHL did the smart thing by staying in his vehicle with the windows up and the doors locked. This merely infuriated the first guy, so he broke the window, reached in and started beating the CHL. The CHL pulled out his handgun and put one .40 S&W (I think) round right in the middle of his chest. The CHL wound up with some permanent injuries, including a broken eye socket.

Although the media tried to crucify the CHL, the grand jury no billed him. If he had gotten out of his vehicle, the outcome MIGHT have been different.

Edit: Here are the articles, first about the shooting and second about being no billed. I was wrong about his window being up.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/23/us/tr ... n-law.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-21/ ... grand-jury

I remember this case very well the two leftist reports from NYT and the LA paper are so full of misinformation it's ridiculous. The CHL holder, was chased by the other driver until he had to stop for a light behind traffic. The other driver got out and punched the CHL holder several times and was trying to pull him out of his vehicle. These facts were testified to by all witnesses including the dead guys partner.

[Pawpaw]

The very first Texas CHL-involved shooting happened in Dallas. In traffic, two trucks hit their mirrors together. One guy decided to get out and teach the other (the CHL) a lesson.

The CHL did the smart thing by staying in his vehicle with the windows up and the doors locked. This merely infuriated the first guy, so he broke the window, reached in and started beating the CHL. The CHL pulled out his handgun and put one .40 S&W (I think) round right in the middle of his chest. The CHL wound up with some permanent injuries, including a broken eye socket.

Although the media tried to crucify the CHL, the grand jury no billed him. If he had gotten out of his vehicle, the outcome MIGHT have been different.

Edit: Here are the articles, first about the shooting and second about being no billed. I was wrong about his window being up.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/23/us/tr ... n-law.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-21/ ... grand-jury

I remember this case very well the two leftist reports from NYT and the LA paper are so full of misinformation it's ridiculous. The CHL holder, was chased by the other driver until he had to stop for a light behind traffic. The other driver got out and punched the CHL holder several times and was trying to pull him out of his vehicle. These facts were testified to by all witnesses including the dead guys partner.

I know, but I had a hard time finding any of the old articles. You know, they didn't fit the agenda.

[Oldgringo]

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

Why did you get out of your vehicle so that he could pummel you? Call 911 and head to the nearest Police Station.

Absent that, just shoot the SOB and hope for the best as you head to the nearest Police Station with events recorded on your smart phone.