Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton
The constitution is the foundation of the system of our government. It defines the powers of the various branches of government.OlBill wrote:They shouldn't.Scott Farkus wrote:DonFromTexas wrote:I have trouble understanding all this as well. From reading this then if an armed police officer comes to your door, you can tell him o buzz off and only come back after he has disarmed himself. That don't seem right either.
I think I disagree with the idea presented that the constitution ONLY applies to the government.
I can't speak to what authority an LEO does or does not have to disarm in your home, but for purposes of the discussion in this thread, we're specifically talking about commercial property, not someone's home. Neither I nor I dare say anyone who advocates my side of this argument would support a law forcing licensed concealed carriers to carry into someone's home (or private non-commercial land) land against the homeowner's wishes. But the rules change when you open your doors to commerce.
So how come businesses don't get to decide their property rights when it comes to their parking lots (employee parking lot law)?jed wrote:Folks, this is not a difficult concept to understand. Do you own part of the business? Do you pay their bills or payroll? No? Then you don't get a say in how they run their business. It's still private property and if they don't want us carrying on their property then they can say no. Shop somewhere else. I work too hard for my money to patronize some place who doesn't want me and my gun. It seems really simple.
I do not know if the law, as written, distinguishes a difference between private property and private property open to the public. It certainly seems to me the government has (and does) infringe on property rights from time to time, both private property and private property open to the public. In terms of private property, one only has to look as far as eminent domain. As for private property open to the public, one only needs to look as far as anti-discriminatory laws. In both cases the government certainly has a say in what happens on your private property.jed wrote:Folks, this is not a difficult concept to understand. Do you own part of the business? Do you pay their bills or payroll? No? Then you don't get a say in how they run their business. It's still private property and if they don't want us carrying on their property then they can say no. Shop somewhere else. I work too hard for my money to patronize some place who doesn't want me and my gun. It seems really simple.
People with LTCs are not a "protected class" and are not likely to become one.PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
anygunanywhere wrote:Remember folks, what you want forced on someone else can be forced on you.
Precisely.Here's a thought. I believe that any owner can give notice allowing a LTC to walk past a compliant 30.06 / 30.07 sign. So if a property is owned by Exxon Mobile, and I am a part owner of that property because I own a part of Exxon Mobile, can I give myself and anyone else effective consent to carry on that property regardless of signage?PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
A publicly owned corporation is one whose worth is divided into shares and publicly traded among many stockholders (as opposed to a few) on at least one trading organization such as NYSE. I believe they still enjoy private ownership rights as a conglomerate of multiple private owners. For example Microsoft can still put a fence around their property, control access, determine what their trespass rules will be, control guns, etc, all within the structure of their rule and policy making per their charter, determined either by the board with or without the direct input of the shareholders as prescribed. For example, the shareholders approve the bylaws which give the board day to day authority to control security and access. All of this under the umbrella of private ownership.PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
As a stockholder you have part ownership in the company, but it is managed by the board of directors, not the stockholders.Soccerdad1995 wrote:Here's a thought. I believe that any owner can give notice allowing a LTC to walk past a compliant 30.06 / 30.07 sign. So if a property is owned by Exxon Mobile, and I am a part owner of that property because I own a part of Exxon Mobile, can I give myself and anyone else effective consent to carry on that property regardless of signage?PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
This is probably a bit of a stretch, but there is some case law here in Texas (I can’t recall the name off the top of my head), where a guy was OC in a common area on the grounds of a condominium. I do not recall the details but essentially the guy was arrested because of OC and I believe later convicted. I think the conviction was overturned on appeal mostly because as a condominium owner, who also owned a small fraction of the common area and therefore was OC on his own property. In that situation, it did not seem to matter that he owned only a very small percentage.WildBill wrote:As a stockholder you have part ownership in the company, but it is managed by the board of directors, not the stockholders.Soccerdad1995 wrote:Here's a thought. I believe that any owner can give notice allowing a LTC to walk past a compliant 30.06 / 30.07 sign. So if a property is owned by Exxon Mobile, and I am a part owner of that property because I own a part of Exxon Mobile, can I give myself and anyone else effective consent to carry on that property regardless of signage?PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
Your best bet is to elect a new board that goes along with your position of LTC. I hope you own a whole lot of shares.
A real big stretch IMO. People who own condos actually have ownership of the property.pt145ss wrote:This is probably a bit of a stretch, but there is some case law here in Texas (I can’t recall the name off the top of my head), where a guy was OC in a common area on the grounds of a condominium. I do not recall the details but essentially the guy was arrested because of OC and I believe later convicted. I think the conviction was overturned on appeal mostly because as a condominium owner, who also owned a small fraction of the common area and therefore was OC on his own property. In that situation, it did not seem to matter that he owned only a very small percentage.WildBill wrote:As a stockholder you have part ownership in the company, but it is managed by the board of directors, not the stockholders.Soccerdad1995 wrote:Here's a thought. I believe that any owner can give notice allowing a LTC to walk past a compliant 30.06 / 30.07 sign. So if a property is owned by Exxon Mobile, and I am a part owner of that property because I own a part of Exxon Mobile, can I give myself and anyone else effective consent to carry on that property regardless of signage?PhilBob wrote:Similar to what ScottDLS wrote, is "private property" owned by a publicly traded company really "private"?
The same goes with regard to any company/store that does business with the public. With regard to MY private property, my home, I can legally exclude or discriminate against anyone I please. Let's say I have an irrational fear or concern when it comes to people in wheel chairs because of liability concerns (similar to a business owner/manager having with regard to guns). I don't want to and don't have to put in ramps, widen doorways or provide handicapped parking. I don't have to let a wheel chair into my home. As soon as I get licensed by the State to do business with the public and do so on my property I, nor that business owner/manager, now can no longer discriminate and have to provide that accessibility. LTC people are a "class" of people and businesses licensed to do business with the public should not be able to discriminate against gun owners, IMHO. Should they be able to prohibit OC vs CC? I'd rather they not but that is similar to establishing a dress code or code of conduct.
I don't have my LTC, yet, but I have started to look for signs and, even now, will avoid doing business with companies that post 30.06 signs whenever there is an alternative.
Your best bet is to elect a new board that goes along with your position of LTC. I hope you own a whole lot of shares.
Also, just because you own stock, does not necessarily mean you have voting-stock. On the other hand, you, in theory, can own very little stock and have super-voting rights.
