H.E.B. and their reason for no open carry

[Right2Carry]

I don't understand all the angst over a this OC thing, almost every store I go insist on shoes and shirts. There are places that insist I don't wear jeans or wife beaters. Although we have a right to wear what ever we want while in our homes or on the streets. This right to bare arms does not extend to privately owned establishments. I look at the 30.07 as a dress code notification. Whats the big deal about covering it up?

I for one will go to the store owned run and financed by Texans. The Butts family have been pretty good to their neighbors. and HEB and Central Market has better goods than just about any store around here. Love their deli and prepared foods. If this means I have to put a shirt on zipper up or cover my my sidearm, then I will. No is telling me I have to disarm.

Shoes and shirts is more of a health/hygiene issue than anything else.

[dru]

I may continue to shop there. But when I do I will do the most _______________________ concealed carry possible. I will have the biggest possible handgun and I will just lazily drape my shirt over it. It will be completely obvious.


Or, I will go where a shirt with a gigantic "concealed handgun" printed on the front with an arrow pointing to it.

This is the gun owners example we don't need. OCT mindset at its finest. Please reconsider. Remember. They don't have to ask you to leave. They can just call the police. the police don't have to ask you to leave first. The police can just charge you with the violation, albeit a class C. Assuming your holster meets OC requirements.

If HEB is posting a 30.07, then the police can't do anything if the gun is concealed. Remember, printing through a shirt is not considered open carry, so no charges could be made. The gun would actually have to be carried openly or they would need a 30.06 sign (if they wanted to get me on a class C)

Edit: By doing it in this fashion, I comply with the letter of the law, I can easily switch back to OC when I leave the store, and I'm not even being one of the people who stroll through the store with an AR slung over their back.

Your tactics are still misguided in my opinion. An OCT style protest. I hope you garner a lot of personal satisfaction in this because you aren't helping the cause, just feeding your desire for "I'll show you HEB". Seriously, what is your point? What do you realistically hope to accomplish? Do you really think HEB will say "sorry, our bad, you showed us" and change their policy? I understand the cover it in the store, uncover out, no problem there, it's the attitude -- biggest-baddest-loosely-draped-gun that puzzles me.

Because i'm not trying to shove anything in HEBs face. I actually don't care if they ban OC or not. What I'm trying to do is to get people to see that OC or CC, are almost the same with the sole difference being about whether or not you can see the gun. The people who protest OC (let's call them the Bloomberg/MDA crowd for brevity) are operating from a standpoint that they just don't want to *see* the pistol. My point is that its not a very reasonable or logical position to be focused on the external appearance when what really matters is the presence of the object in question. So by doing it in the fashion I outlined, I'm both respecting HEBs stance, and also forcing them to confront the fact that their position is mostly based on feelings and not whether they're actually safer. Or as we say on reddit, the MDA crowd adopts the mantra of "feelz > realz". IMO, the real question should be about the presence of firearms and whether they should be allowed at all. The method of carry is quite secondary to that. Its incredibly inconsistent to worry about how someone who is vetted is carrying the gun if you've already made the determination that they will be allowed to carry the gun in your store.

[WildBill]

The people who protest OC (let's call them the Bloomberg/MDA crowd for brevity) are operating from a standpoint that they just don't want to *see* the pistol. My point is that its not a very reasonable or logical position to be focused on the external appearance when what really matters is the presence of the object in question.

Dru - I understand your point, but lumping in people who do not want OC in their business with "the Bloombery/MDA crowd" is not productive.
As you know many people on this forum have different opinions about open carry so it is not surprising that non-gun owners also have different beliefs.
You also probably realize that when it comes to the subject of guns, many people are not reasonable or logical in their thinking.
What is that old saying? "Out of Sight Out of Mind."
Happy New Year!

[gljjt]

Its incredibly inconsistent to worry about how someone who is vetted is carrying the gun if you've already made the determination that they will be allowed to carry the gun in your store.

It is not inconsistent. You are vetted. They know that. They welcome CC. They are not worried about you. They are concerned about OC, they are concerned about how people will react and how it may negatively impact their business. They made a decision based on their business. It doesn't matter whether they are correct or not, or whether you agree with them or not. They believe OC in their store is potentially bad for business. Your statement above is what is inconsistent. It makes no logical sense at all. To flaunt their stance on OC by in your face (bulge, print) CC does not make for good RKBA ambassadors. But carry on. It's your right. But it isn't right. IMO. Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one.

[dru]

The people who protest OC (let's call them the Bloomberg/MDA crowd for brevity) are operating from a standpoint that they just don't want to *see* the pistol. My point is that its not a very reasonable or logical position to be focused on the external appearance when what really matters is the presence of the object in question.

Dru - I understand your point, but lumping in people who do not want OC in their business with "the Bloombery/MDA crowd" is not productive.
As you know many people on this forum have different opinions about open carry so it is not surprising that non-gun owners also have different beliefs.
You also probably realize that when it comes to the subject of guns, many people are not reasonable or logical in their thinking.
What is that old saying? "Out of Sight Out of Mind."
Happy New Year!

So, I was talking about the people who *protest* OC. HEB isn't protesting anything, nor are most people. About the only organized voice you will hear against OC in general, as a policy, are the Bloomberg/MDA crowd. That's why I called them out. A business can ban OC without being a part of that group and my comment wasn't directed toward them.

You also probably realize that when it comes to the subject of guns, many people are not reasonable or logical in their thinking.

Absolutely! Its a pet peeve of mine that people are irrational about so many things. I enjoy creating situations where they have to think critical about an issue....any issue, not just guns. In my experience, most people who actually critically think through the gun issue and get a proper exposure to guns are more likely to be okay with them. Hence my motivation for all this in the first place.

Happy New Year to you as well.

[gljjt]

The people who protest OC (let's call them the Bloomberg/MDA crowd for brevity) are operating from a standpoint that they just don't want to *see* the pistol. My point is that its not a very reasonable or logical position to be focused on the external appearance when what really matters is the presence of the object in question.

Dru - I understand your point, but lumping in people who do not want OC in their business with "the Bloombery/MDA crowd" is not productive.
As you know many people on this forum have different opinions about open carry so it is not surprising that non-gun owners also have different beliefs.
You also probably realize that when it comes to the subject of guns, many people are not reasonable or logical in their thinking.
What is that old saying? "Out of Sight Out of Mind."
Happy New Year!

So, I was talking about the people who *protest* OC. HEB isn't protesting anything, nor are most people. About the only organized voice you will hear against OC in general, as a policy, are the Bloomberg/MDA crowd. That's why I called them out. A business can ban OC without being a part of that group and my comment wasn't directed toward them.

You also probably realize that when it comes to the subject of guns, many people are not reasonable or logical in their thinking.

Absolutely! Its a pet peeve of mine that people are irrational about so many things. I enjoy creating situations where they have to think critical about an issue....any issue, not just guns. In my experience, most people who actually critically think through the gun issue and get a proper exposure to guns are more likely to be okay with them. Hence my motivation for all this in the first place.

Happy New Year to you as well.

We may not agree on all things but we are on the same side. Happy New Year!

[Embalmo]

My HEBs here in Pflugerville are not posted 30.07 and I strongly predict that a yellow shirt will point to their blue TABC sign.

[dru]

a yellow shirt will point to their blue TABC sign.

the what?

[Embalmo]

a yellow shirt will point to their blue TABC sign.

the what?

Their loss-prevention team wears yellow shirts, and, like lot of security for hire, some fancy themselves law enforcement.

[Rayden]

Ding Ding Ding ....

I don't understand all the angst over a this OC thing, almost every store I go insist on shoes and shirts. There are places that insist I don't wear jeans or wife beaters. Although we have a right to wear what ever we want while in our homes or on the streets. This right to bare arms does not extend to privately owned establishments. I look at the 30.07 as a dress code notification. Whats the big deal about covering it up?

I for one will go to the store owned run and financed by Texans. The Butts family have been pretty good to their neighbors. and HEB and Central Market has better goods than just about any store around here. Love their deli and prepared foods. If this means I have to put a shirt on zipper up or cover my my sidearm, then I will. No is telling me I have to disarm.

[gljjt]

My HEBs here in Pflugerville are not posted 30.07 and I strongly predict that a yellow shirt will point to their blue TABC sign.

The HEB at 685 and Pecan is posted 30.07. But you have to look for it. On the glass behind carts, merchandise our other stuff.

[Jim Beaux]

I don't understand all the angst over a this OC thing, almost every store I go insist on shoes and shirts. There are places that insist I don't wear jeans or wife beaters. Although we have a right to wear what ever we want while in our homes or on the streets. This right to bare arms does not extend to privately owned establishments. I look at the 30.07 as a dress code notification. Whats the big deal about covering it up?

I for one will go to the store owned run and financed by Texans. The Butts family have been pretty good to their neighbors. and HEB and Central Market has better goods than just about any store around here. Love their deli and prepared foods. If this means I have to put a shirt on zipper up or cover my my sidearm, then I will. No is telling me I have to disarm.

Adherence to convention, whether it be wearing a coat & tie or shoes is a matter of respect. I have the constitutional right to do many things, but I will often defer out of respect for others.

[mojo84]

There is a difference between seeing someone naked and seeing them with clothes on. We know there is a naked body underneath the clothes but it is just different not seeing it. The thin layer of material makes a difference. For some, regardless how illogical or silly we may consider it, some people don't want to see guns or have their customers see guns in their place of business.

[WildBill]

There is a difference between seeing someone naked and seeing them with clothes on. We know there is a naked body underneath the clothes but it is just different not seeing it. The thin layer of material makes a difference. For some, regardless how illogical or silly we may consider it, some people don't want to see guns or have their customers see guns in their place of business.

An interesting analogy.

[Oldgringo]

There is a difference between seeing someone naked and seeing them with clothes on. We know there is a naked body underneath the clothes but it is just different not seeing it. The thin layer of material makes a difference. For some, regardless how illogical or silly we may consider it, some people don't want to see guns or have their customers see guns in their place of business.

An interesting analogy.

I think mojo84 is right. Clothes can provide a great service in many instances...so can sacks.