NOW Live Stream Williamson County leaders to answer gun law questions

[mojo84]

They seemed to be unclear about carry in a government building. I thought I heard them say that it was prohibited. Did anyone else catch that?

Yes. The Round Rock Training officer said government buildings were prohibited for CHL/OC. I was trying to figure out how to send a question via Facebook to ask him why he says that, but couldn't get it done. I also disagree with the statement that a waiter can give you notice to leave.

Why do you think the waiter as an employee or agent of the business can't ask you to leave or cover up? I think he/she can.

I don't think a waiter would have authority to speak for the establishment. What if the waiter was irked because you asked extra bread and tells you to get out under threat of trespass if you fail to do so. I don't think 30.06 gives extra authority to a waiter nor a bus boy nor a sales clerk nor any one not put in a position of authority by management and/or owner at a retail establishment. The remarks by the panel on conflicts between a waiter and the manager show how silly that would be allow it. Monkeys running the circus comes to mind. IANAL so I could be wrong

According to the law, all it takes is apparent authority. If they are an employee, there is no way for you to know what authority has been granted. I would not argue if the person is obviously an employee.

[mojo84]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

[SewTexas]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

that guy/gal waiting on you could be a manager, you never know.

[puma guy]

They seemed to be unclear about carry in a government building. I thought I heard them say that it was prohibited. Did anyone else catch that?

Yes. The Round Rock Training officer said government buildings were prohibited for CHL/OC. I was trying to figure out how to send a question via Facebook to ask him why he says that, but couldn't get it done. I also disagree with the statement that a waiter can give you notice to leave.

Why do you think the waiter as an employee or agent of the business can't ask you to leave or cover up? I think he/she can.

I don't think a waiter would have authority to speak for the establishment. What if the waiter was irked because you asked extra bread and tells you to get out under threat of trespass if you fail to do so. I don't think 30.06 gives extra authority to a waiter nor a bus boy nor a sales clerk nor any one not put in a position of authority by management and/or owner at a retail establishment. The remarks by the panel on conflicts between a waiter and the manager show how silly that would be allow it. Monkeys running the circus comes to mind. IANAL so I could be wrong

According to the law, all it takes is apparent authority. If they are an employee, there is no way for you to know what authority has been granted. I would not argue if the person is obviously an employee.

I wouldn't argue with anyone either; I'd simply leave. At issue was whether they'd have actual authority to order you to leave and I don't think they would. Again my interpretation , not a lawyer.

[puma guy]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't. Following your logic if the waiter makes an offensive remark to a protected class the place would be sued since he represents the establishment.

[mojo84]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

[puma guy]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

I guess your mojo just don't work for me

[JP171]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

I'm going to throw this in there, the question also said that the patron asked for a manager and the manager said that was NOT the policy so therefore the employee (waitstaff) does NOT have the apparent authority. for instance Olive garden restaurant is owned by Darden Industries, even the manager is NOT allowed to make a rule that says no guns period. The manager tries and the manager become employmentally challenged

[mojo84]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

I guess your mojo just don't work for me

Neither does the law. Charles has commented on this previously. Maybe his mojo will work better for you. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78386&p=1003445&hil ... y#p1003445

If you are wrong, you can kiss your LTC and a bunch of money goodbye for a while.

[puma guy]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

I guess your mojo just don't work for me

Neither does the law. Charles has commented on this previously. Maybe his will.

It would help if you can find his post. I'm sure Tilman Fertitta will be pleased his waiter have so much authority.

[Breny414]

I don't think the waiter is making policy, he/she is advising you of the policy. I think that is the difference. Once advised we are obliged to follow the directive.

[mojo84]

I too disagree on the waiter thing. A waiter does not speak for the establishment. It is of my opinion that the authority person is the one making the rules. If the waiter can't say, ok it's time to close down the restaurant for the evening, they can't give you notice to leave. Same thing with a walmart cashier. They don't speak for the overall interests of the store. That is what managers are for.

How do you know he does not speak for the establishment. He is an employee and represents the establishment in its interactions with you. Do you accept the food he or she brings you? Do you accept if they tell you they don't take personal checks? What makes you think only a manger can tell you? Is that in the law or is that just how you want it to be?

The argument you make would mean the waiter sets policy on all those things you lay out and I assure you they don't.

No it doesn't. You are putting words in my mouth and or twisting what I said.

It means the person has the authority and duty to follow company policy. That policy may direct them to tell open carriers they have to cover up, leave or put your gun in your car.

A place can be sued if an employee makes a racist remark, harrasses or injures someone. I sell insurance policies that cover third party employment practices liability. If it couldn't happen, there wouldn't be an insurance policy covering it and it companies wouldn't buy it.

How can this be so hard to understand?

I guess your mojo just don't work for me

Neither does the law. Charles has commented on this previously. Maybe his will.

It would help if you can find his post. I'm sure Tilman Fertitta will be pleased his waiter have so much authority.

I figured you'd be too lazy to look it is so I did it for you. Look at my post and you'll find the link. I am sure Tilman would be pleased to know his employees follow the policies he and his management team sets.

All it took was a very simple search.

Nice attempt at sarcasm. I guess when that's all you got....

[stingeragent]

I wasn't intending my opinion to turn into an all out war on this thread. I was simply saying "I" don't think a waiter has the authority, however that doesn't mean I would stand there like a fool and refuse to leave. If an employee asks me to leave I would. Now whether I would think they actually had the right to do so is something different, but I'm not going to risk my license on it. However, apparent authority to me could be different to you. The way I see it, the person making decisions for the company absent the owner has the apparent authority. If you have a complaint at academy you don't ask to talk to the camping sales person, you ask for the manager because they are the ones who make the decisions. That's my definition of authority. The actual definition of authority is " the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. " That isn't the waiter.

[mojo84]

I wasn't intending my opinion to turn into an all out war on this thread. I was simply saying "I" don't think a waiter has the authority, however that doesn't mean I would stand there like a fool and refuse to leave. If an employee asks me to leave I would. Now whether I would think they actually had the right to do so is something different, but I'm not going to risk my license on it.

The fallacy of your and the other guy's reasoning and logic could lead someone to believe they can ignore anyone's opinion that isn't an owner or manager. That could mislead someone to lose their license for a while and cosg them a substantial amount of money.

There is a responsibility to try and make sure correct information is shared here. If that takes hearty debate, so be it.

[stingeragent]

I wasn't proposing to ignore it though. As I said, if I am in a store, and a uniformed employee asks me to leave I'm out. I may or may not agree with it, but as I said, I'm not risking my license over it.

Edit: If you refuse to leave because you think they don't have apparent authority, it's ultimately up to what the grand jury thinks "apparent" means. I'm sure you could survey 100 people and ask them who in a store has the apparent authority and you'd most likely get vastly different opinions just as you do on here. But again, I would say, if in doubt, get out. Then you don't have to worry about what your jury of peers thinks is apparent.