Grapevine Mills Mall

[ScottDLS]

Well if it was up to me I wouldn't go there. I would much rather spend my money at a small business anyway, much less some left wing morons at a large corporation. So if caught carrying there for whatever reason, with this signage being wrong, what are the potential consequences?

If you wait until Jan.1 and they somehow successfully prosecute you for going past an incorrect sign it will be a $200 class C ticket and no jail. That is as long as you leave if they tell you to. I wouldn't knowingly pass a VALID sign even then, but if they can't go to the trouble to post the correct signage then I guess they don't care if I carry. So I will.

[casp625]

Well if it was up to me I wouldn't go there. I would much rather spend my money at a small business anyway, much less some left wing morons at a large corporation. So if caught carrying there for whatever reason, with this signage being wrong, what are the potential consequences?

If you wait until Jan.1 and they somehow successfully prosecute you for going past an incorrect sign it will be a $200 class C ticket and no jail. That is as long as you leave if they tell you to. I wouldn't knowingly pass a VALID sign even then, but if they can't go to the trouble to post the correct signage then I guess they don't care if I carry. So I will.

Does it say no jail? People still get arrested for not wearing a seat belt and failing to use their signals properly...

[ScottDLS]

Well if it was up to me I wouldn't go there. I would much rather spend my money at a small business anyway, much less some left wing morons at a large corporation. So if caught carrying there for whatever reason, with this signage being wrong, what are the potential consequences?

If you wait until Jan.1 and they somehow successfully prosecute you for going past an incorrect sign it will be a $200 class C ticket and no jail. That is as long as you leave if they tell you to. I wouldn't knowingly pass a VALID sign even then, but if they can't go to the trouble to post the correct signage then I guess they don't care if I carry. So I will.

Does it say no jail? People still get arrested for not wearing a seat belt and failing to use their signals properly...

There's no jail possible as a penalty. Same as almost all class C's. Seat belt violation is specifically not arrestable by statute, but I guess you could get arrested for trespass by chl class c. If I were arrested for passing an invalid sign, I'd ask for a jury trial in JP court and drag it out as long as I could...'cause even if I was wrongly convicted, it's $200 max fine and no loss of CHL

[casp625]

Well if it was up to me I wouldn't go there. I would much rather spend my money at a small business anyway, much less some left wing morons at a large corporation. So if caught carrying there for whatever reason, with this signage being wrong, what are the potential consequences?

If you wait until Jan.1 and they somehow successfully prosecute you for going past an incorrect sign it will be a $200 class C ticket and no jail. That is as long as you leave if they tell you to. I wouldn't knowingly pass a VALID sign even then, but if they can't go to the trouble to post the correct signage then I guess they don't care if I carry. So I will.

Does it say no jail? People still get arrested for not wearing a seat belt and failing to use their signals properly...

There's no jail possible as a penalty. Same as almost all class C's. Seat belt violation is specifically not arrestable by statute, but I guess you could get arrested for trespass by chl class c. If I were arrested for passing an invalid sign, I'd ask for a jury trial in JP court and drag it out as long as I could...'cause even if I was wrongly convicted, it's $200 max fine and no loss of CHL

SCOTUS ruled that a seat belt offense is a justified offense for arrest... What Texas statute says otherwise? I'm only familiar with speeding and open container from being exempt from arrest.

[jb2012]

So the consensus is carry at your own risk??

[ScottDLS]

Well if it was up to me I wouldn't go there. I would much rather spend my money at a small business anyway, much less some left wing morons at a large corporation. So if caught carrying there for whatever reason, with this signage being wrong, what are the potential consequences?

If you wait until Jan.1 and they somehow successfully prosecute you for going past an incorrect sign it will be a $200 class C ticket and no jail. That is as long as you leave if they tell you to. I wouldn't knowingly pass a VALID sign even then, but if they can't go to the trouble to post the correct signage then I guess they don't care if I carry. So I will.

Does it say no jail? People still get arrested for not wearing a seat belt and failing to use their signals properly...

There's no jail possible as a penalty. Same as almost all class C's. Seat belt violation is specifically not arrestable by statute, but I guess you could get arrested for trespass by chl class c. If I were arrested for passing an invalid sign, I'd ask for a jury trial in JP court and drag it out as long as I could...'cause even if I was wrongly convicted, it's $200 max fine and no loss of CHL

SCOTUS ruled that a seat belt offense is a justified offense for arrest... What Texas statute says otherwise? I'm only familiar with speeding and open container from being exempt from arrest.

Yeah I forgot that Perry vetoed the 3 times the Legislature tried to change that. Still no jail as the penalty. I don't know how long they can hold you on a no jail charge, but I really don't care. If the signs are invalid, or the store that I'm in is not posted, I'll go in. I'm never going to take proverbial "ride" because contrary to current belief, the Grapevine police don't have x-ray eyes.

[MadMonkey]

I'm never going to take proverbial "ride" because contrary to current belief, the Grapevine police don't have x-ray eyes.

You never know what situation will arise while you're in there. For me it's not worth the risk or hassle.

Btw, IIRC a few years ago Grapevine PD explicitly stated that anyone caught CC'ing there would take the ride regardless of legality.

There's a police substation there as well, lots of narcs in plainclothes (I used to be a security supervisor at the mall).

[ScottDLS]

I'm never going to take proverbial "ride" because contrary to current belief, the Grapevine police don't have x-ray eyes.

You never know what situation will arise while you're in there. For me it's not worth the risk or hassle.

Btw, IIRC a few years ago Grapevine PD explicitly stated that anyone caught CC'ing there would take the ride regardless of legality.

There's a police substation there as well, lots of narcs in plainclothes (I used to be a security supervisor at the mall).

I've carried in places that were clearly improperly posted when it was a class A misdemeanor for properly posted locations. I'm sure I would have at least taken the ride then, but concealing is not that hard. GVMM doesn't have metal detectors (yet), and after Jan 1 it will be a class C, no jail penalty, to pass a VALID sign. If they don't update the signs on Jan. 1 I won't worry about carrying there, though I seldom go. I can afford to fight a ticket, but maybe not a class A misdemeanor. A right not exercised is a right lost.

[DUST FOOT]

Has anyone checked to see who owns the land the mall sits on. Why I ask is when I do any construction work around there we have to go by the D/FW airport rules on safety and EPA clean up. If I remember right Bass Pro is on D/FW land which is owned by the cities of Dallas and Ft. Worth. Just something to look into.

[Nuts]

Was there last weekend. Had to take my son to Legoland for his b-day. The signs are definitely there. Told my wife that's the last time we are going there.

[IsraelisJewish]

I took my CHL class today (12/4/15) and there is something I need clarification on. Perhaps you folks may help me to understand this issue.

The issue is on this "sign thingy", in particular the 30.06 sign. (I don't need clarification on the 51% sign). Here is my question: Do the words, or proper wording really matter? If the sign is up, and say it is an out-of-date one isn't that the equivalent of the private store owner telling you that they do not allow CHL etc., on the premisis? AND why worry about the "wording" and if it has one inch letters and etc., etc., etc., if a business may simply put a picture not he windows of a handgun in a circle with a line drawn through it-and you see it, then you are not legal to carry in the store? So why the big debate on the signs?
OK. I am not trying to set off a big debate or something, I am just trying to get clarification on this. In class as they explained the signs and etc., I thought it was awful redundant and unnecessary and all.

-IsraelIsJewish

[Jago668]

I took my CHL class today (12/4/15) and there is something I need clarification on. Perhaps you folks may help me to understand this issue.

The issue is on this "sign thingy", in particular the 30.06 sign. (I don't need clarification on the 51% sign). Here is my question: Do the words, or proper wording really matter? If the sign is up, and say it is an out-of-date one isn't that the equivalent of the private store owner telling you that they do not allow CHL etc., on the premisis? AND why worry about the "wording" and if it has one inch letters and etc., etc., etc., if a business may simply put a picture not he windows of a handgun in a circle with a line drawn through it-and you see it, then you are not legal to carry in the store? So why the big debate on the signs?
OK. I am not trying to set off a big debate or something, I am just trying to get clarification on this. In class as they explained the signs and etc., I thought it was awful redundant and unnecessary and all.

-IsraelIsJewish

Yes the words, text, and size matter. The law says in order for the sign to be effective notice it has to meet certain requirements. If it does not meet those requirements then it is not legally effective notice. It is there to protect gun carriers. It keeps a place from putting a little tiny sign in some out of the way place and then claiming that you were notified not to carry there.

[IsraelisJewish]

I think I realize what we are saying here. Is it that some store/business owners take "shortcuts" and place a, for example, little sign that has a gun in a circle with a light through it, INSTEAD of the legal 30.06 sign? In THAT situation, one could ignore the sign as it was not the REQUIRED and PROPER 30.06 sign. That is, unless the owner/manager of the business walked up and informed you they did not wish you to carry in the store/business? (assuming somehow they found out you were carrying?).

Is this the right assessment here? And I wish to apologize, when I returned to read any answers I realized I am guilty of hi-jacking the subject matter of this thread.

[IsraelisJewish]

I think I have answered my own question to my satisfaction, to the "letter of the law" at least, i.e., if a business posts a sign other then this:

[". . . a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication . . . . a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following:]

'Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun' "

-both in english and Spanish
-appears in contrasting colors
-with block letters at least one inch height
-displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Now the issue is whether one (CHL carrier) will enter when the 30.06 sign does not have that identical language (outdated, etc.). For me, it is no issue. I just won't enter the business or I will go and secure my firearm. OK, It's settled. Thanks!

[The Annoyed Man]

I can't find any consistent answers on the grapevine mills mall, and my girl friend is insisting on going tonight....with everything going on in the world right now I'd like to avoid places like that all together, but at the same time I refuse to let these animals turn me into a hermit. Is there a final answer on whether or not the mall is posted 30.06?

Go to the Northeast Mall in Hurst, which is about 20 minutes south (by freeway) from the Grapevine Mills Mall, and it isn't posted. It has pretty much everything that GVM has, and what it doesn't have, it has an equivalent attraction. I live in Grapevine, and I have successfully avoided GVM for years.....ever since I first got my CHL in fact.

BTW, the local police blotter list a LOT of incidents at GVM. You know what a lot of them are? Vehicle break-ins. Why? Guess what people have to leave in their cars when they go inside? Guess who's watching for someone that looks like they are unholstering and putting something in the glovebox/center console/under seat?

And, under a written information request from Mike B (one of our moderators) a few years back when the signs were NOT compliant, it was the GVPD's stated policy to enforce the GVM signs as if they were compliant. I hate malls anyway, but so long as I have to go to one for any reason, I give my dollars to the stores located in the mall with enough sense to not post 30.06 signs. And for me (located in GV, but right on the border between GV, Colleyville, and Euless), it is an equidistant drive to either mall.