Mini Rant over HB910 and Horizontal Shoulder Holsters

[Taypo]

harrycallahan says "And for the record, if you're ever behind me and don't like .45 in my rig...move!"

Yep, and "for the record", that is exactly the type of "ethics" that will result in people moving allright - moving straight over to the customer service counter and asking to speak with the General Manager. Then us all seeing new 30.07 signs, possibly new 30.06 signs while they are at it. Not to mention, making it tougher, rather than easier, to get more prohibited locations removed in the 2017 session of the TX Legislature.

[android]

RULE 2

BTW, covering the trigger may not be the end of the story. For striker-fired weapons it is, but not for hammer-fired handguns. Those handguns need to be secured with a strap that is between the hammer and firing pin because a sear an fail. I know, I had it happen.
Chas.

Yes, I understand what is a "safe holster" for some guns may not be for others. I hope everyone here is responsible enough to use a safe holster for the type of gun they carry and that they carry modern firearms that have passed the FBI drop test. To do otherwise is very irresponsible when "safe" guns are readily available. Why would you carry a handgun that will fire when dropped?

Do you ever expect the firearm on your belt to accidentally discharge while holstered in a safe holster? If so, why would you carry it?

I don't have a dog in the fight and I don't own a shoulder holster, but the only time a shoulder or appendix holster become "more dangerous" than any other holster is when the gun is being drawn.

I will acknowledge you have a much higher chance of shooting the person behind you, or your leg if you aren't careful vs. grazing your leg or shooting your foot which we know happens with belt carry sometimes.

If you never know the person in front of you is wearing a shoulder holster because they're wearing a jacket do you feel unsafe or do you only feel unsafe when you can see the barrel? This seems to be more about "feelings" to me rather than whether you are really safe or not. That puts it into anti-gunner territory where facts are ignored.

[Abraham]

I've seen OWB holsters so canted (on an LEO) that those folks immediately behind him were being swept.

I was in line to pay for my license plates and while waiting my turn, I saw this LEO standing close by talking to some civilian and noticed I was being swept with his 1911 it was so canted.

It made me distinctively uncomfortable, but I thought if I complained he'd be outraged at my temerity as he that old time, (he looked to be in his 60's) mirrored sunglasses wearing - boy you in heapa trouble" look about him. So, I kept my trap shut.

However, if "Mr. Obnoxious Civilian - I don't care what you think, I'll sweep all I care to" I won't be keeping silent. No, I won't confront him - But I will speak to management if it happens while I'm in a business establishment.

His right to OC doesn't give him the right to sweep everyone behind him.

So be warned if you plan to wear OC a shoulder holster designed to sweep.

[Taypo]

RULE 2

BTW, covering the trigger may not be the end of the story. For striker-fired weapons it is, but not for hammer-fired handguns. Those handguns need to be secured with a strap that is between the hammer and firing pin because a sear an fail. I know, I had it happen.
Chas.

Yes, I understand what is a "safe holster" for some guns may not be for others. I hope everyone here is responsible enough to use a safe holster for the type of gun they carry and that they carry modern firearms that have passed the FBI drop test. To do otherwise is very irresponsible when "safe" guns are readily available. Why would you carry a handgun that will fire when dropped?

Do you ever expect the firearm on your belt to accidentally discharge while holstered in a safe holster? If so, why would you carry it?

I don't have a dog in the fight and I don't own a shoulder holster, but the only time a shoulder or appendix holster become "more dangerous" than any other holster is when the gun is being drawn.

I will acknowledge you have a much higher chance of shooting the person behind you, or your leg if you aren't careful vs. grazing your leg or shooting your foot which we know happens.

If you never know the person in front of you is wearing a shoulder holster because they're wearing a jacket do you feel unsafe or do you only feel unsafe when you can see the barrel? This seems to be more about "feelings" to me rather than whether you are really safe or not. That puts it into anti-gunner territory where facts are ignored.

I don't expect a fire, but I keep a fire extinguisher in my house.
I don't expect my battery to die, but I keep cables in the truck.
I don't expect to have to shoot to eliminate a threat, but I carry a gun every day.

Bad stuff happens all the time, especially when you don't expect it. Minimizing risk is the best we can do, so I choose not to point guns at things I'm not willing to destroy. I also choose not to stand in front of a gun, regardless of how safe it is or how well made the holster is. Honestly, what someone does with a vertical holster system doesn't phase me in the least. If they ND, its going into them or the floor with a possible ricochet.

Am I doing it without knowing it with concealed carry? Probably, but I can't do a thing about it so it's not much of a thought. I can, however, make sure I'm not doing it with OC folks.

[Charles L. Cotton]

RULE 2

BTW, covering the trigger may not be the end of the story. For striker-fired weapons it is, but not for hammer-fired handguns. Those handguns need to be secured with a strap that is between the hammer and firing pin because a sear an fail. I know, I had it happen.
Chas.

Yes, I understand what is a "safe holster" for some guns may not be for others. I hope everyone here is responsible enough to use a safe holster for the type of gun they carry and that they carry modern firearms that have passed the FBI drop test. To do otherwise is very irresponsible when "safe" guns are readily available. Why would you carry a handgun that will fire when dropped?

Do you ever expect the firearm on your belt to accidentally discharge while holstered in a safe holster? If so, why would you carry it?

I don't have a dog in the fight and I don't own a shoulder holster, but the only time a shoulder or appendix holster become "more dangerous" than any other holster is when the gun is being drawn.

I will acknowledge you have a much higher chance of shooting the person behind you, or your leg if you aren't careful vs. grazing your leg or shooting your foot which we know happens with belt carry sometimes.

If you never know the person in front of you is wearing a shoulder holster because they're wearing a jacket do you feel unsafe or do you only feel unsafe when you can see the barrel? This seems to be more about "feelings" to me rather than whether you are really safe or not. That puts it into anti-gunner territory where facts are ignored.

I responded to your comment that no one was "swept" with a muzzle if the trigger was covered by the holster. This simply is not the case. When the muzzle points at a person, that person has been swept and that violates one of the cardinal gun safety rules.

As to the "feelings" comment, you are correct, it is about feelings. I don't like the feeling I get when I'm looking down the muzzle of a gun and I'm quite certain almost every rational person in a store or restaurant would agree. As I noted, at the minimum it's rude to put others in fear and it is irresponsible in terms of damaging the reputation of the so-called gun community by doing so.

If you are in line at a restaurant and the person in front of you is wearing a horizontal shoulder holster with the muzzle point at you or a loved one, are you going to move or just stand there?

Chas.

[steveincowtown]

However, if "Mr. Obnoxious Civilian - I don't care what you think, I'll sweep all I care to" I won't be keeping silent. No, I won't confront him - But I will speak to management if it happens while I'm in a business establishment.

His right to OC doesn't give him the right to sweep everyone behind him.

So be warned if you plan to wear OC a shoulder holster designed to sweep.

Why wouldn't you just talk to the person OCing/ your fellow man and license holder? License holders have a long history of being good people who commit fewer crimes than LEOs. I don't think when Jan. 1, 2016 hit they will act any differently.

[Taypo]

However, if "Mr. Obnoxious Civilian - I don't care what you think, I'll sweep all I care to" I won't be keeping silent. No, I won't confront him - But I will speak to management if it happens while I'm in a business establishment.

His right to OC doesn't give him the right to sweep everyone behind him.

So be warned if you plan to wear OC a shoulder holster designed to sweep.

Why wouldn't you just talk to the person OCing/ your fellow man and license holder? License holders have a long history of being good people who commit fewer crimes than LEOs. I don't think when Jan. 1, 2016 hit they will act any differently.

Gee, I dont know...maybe comments like "If you don't like where my .45 is pointing, move!" have something to do with it. Do the current breed of OC folks on TV and the Internet strike you as the understanding, compromising type? I'm sure they're in the minority, but I'd rather talk to someone who can effect a change, rather than get into an argument

[Abraham]

Taypo hit the nail on the head.

If someone is willing to wear a shoulder rig that sweeps, that in and of itself says enough for me to know at best my complaint would fall on deaf ears and at worst an altercation.

[JALLEN]

How can one be sure the guy ahead of you is "the only one professional enough in the room to carry one" like that? BLAM!

[J.R.@A&M]

Hope this isn't in the wrong forum area, but for curiosity sake, how many of you practice shoulder holster carry? I have always considered it but was afraid it would be uncomfortable (I had to wear an immobility harness once for an injury and it was terrible). I carry a Glock 19...any holster recommendations? If somewhat comfortable, this is a type of carry I would like to try.

I do pretty much the same thing as Karder. When traveling, and/or when in business attire, I use an older, simpler version of this http://www.deepconceal.com/shoulder-holster-s/1817.htm . It holds the pistol vertically. I wear it over a tee shirt, and under a dress shirt. It's made of cotton, nylon and velcro, and is reasonably comfortable.

[TXBO]

I would hope you would stand behind any citizen who elects to possess, carry, hold, concealed or openly carry a firearm in a manner allowed by law (that would include laws not just reference the carry method but disorderly conduct laws as well) I know I do

There's really no law against breaking any of the "4 Rules of Firearm Safety". I'm not going to support anyone that breaks them.

[steveincowtown]

Gee, I dont know...maybe comments like "If you don't like where my .45 is pointing, move!" have something to do with it. Do the current breed of OC folks on TV and the Internet strike you as the understanding, compromising type? I'm sure they're in the minority, but I'd rather talk to someone who can effect a change, rather than get into an argument

I haven't seen any OCers carry pistols at all in Texas, which is the topic. The long gun guys who have been rude are a totally different discussion. I guess I have a little more faith in my fellow license holders excellent track record, and like I said I don't think that the clock striking 12:01AM on 1/1/16 is going to change that.

Anyhow to each their own...

As for me if the situation arises I will handle it like any other situation I have in that past. Calmly and man to man. Haven't gotten shot yet!

[android]

I responded to your comment that no one was "swept" with a muzzle if the trigger was covered by the holster. This simply is not the case. When the muzzle points at a person, that person has been swept and that violates one of the cardinal gun safety rules.
Chas.

Well can disagree on this and Kathy disagrees with you too.

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/hols ... our-rules/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[o b juan]

Kathys Rule 2 Never POINT the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

The real Rule IS Never let the barrel of a gun COVER any thing your not willing to destroy.

The difference is she uses the word POINT