Carry at work?
Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire
Carry at work?
Ok, so I have been wondering about this for a while and have yet to get a definiative answer.
I work in Mansfield, for a branch of a company that is headquartered in Kentucky. There are only ten people in our facilty, all born and bred Texans, all "pro-gun". I have recently received my plastic and have been wondering about the ability to carry concealed on the company property and in the facility. I do joe two other employees have their CHL, but have not asked if they carry at work.
Below is the section of our handbook that addresses weapons. This is the only mention of any kind in the whole thing that remotely references weapons, so I'm a bit confused...does Texas law apply, does Kentucky? And what would be considered a "unlawful weapon" in the case of a CHL-er?
“Workplace Violence Prevention
Violence by an employee or anyone else against an employee, supervisor or customer will not be tolerated. The purpose of this policy is to minimize the potential risk of personal injuries to employees at work and to reduce the possibility of damage of company property in the event someone, for whatever reason, may be unhappy with a company decision or action by an employee or member of management.
If you receive or overhear any threatening communications from an employee or third party, or encounter an individual who is threatening immediate harm to an employee or third party, report it to a supervisor, director, Vice-President or the President of the company immediately. Do not engage in either physical or verbal confrontation with a potentially violent individual.
Absolutely no unlawful weapons will be allowed on company premises, which include the grounds and parking lots.
All reports of work-related threats will be kept confidential to the extent possible, investigated and documented. Employees are encouraged to report and participate in an investigation of any suspected or actual incident of workplace violence. Your failure to report or fully cooperate in the company’s investigation may result in discipline.
Violations of this policy will not be permitted, and will result in disciplinary action, up to and including discharge. Further, violations of this policy may be reported to law enforcement personnel and the offenders may be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law.”
“Workplace Searches
To protect the property and to ensure the safety of all employees, customers and the company, the company reserves the right to conduct personal searches consistent with state law, and to inspect any packages, parcels, purses, handbags, brief cases, lunch boxes or any other possessions or articles carried to and from the company’s property. In addition, the company reserves the right to search any employee’s office, desk, files, lockers, equipment, or any other area or article on our premises, including vehicles parked on company property. In this regard, it should be noted that all offices, desks, files, lockers, equipment, etc. are the property of the company, and are issued for the use of employees only during their employment. Inspection may be conducted at any time at the discretion of the company.
Employees working on or entering or leaving the premises who refuse to cooperate in an inspection, as well as employees who after the inspection are believed to be in possession of stolen property, unlawful weapons or illegal drugs or alcohol will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including discharge if, upon investigation, they are found to be in violation of the company’s security procedures or any other company rules and regulations.”
Can I carry? Or should I abstain for the sake of the job? It seems fairly obtuse and generic, as if to scare off someone that does not know the law, but I am trying to be diligent and make sure I know the facts. Comments and suggestions or proof of what is legal would be greatly appreciated.
I work in Mansfield, for a branch of a company that is headquartered in Kentucky. There are only ten people in our facilty, all born and bred Texans, all "pro-gun". I have recently received my plastic and have been wondering about the ability to carry concealed on the company property and in the facility. I do joe two other employees have their CHL, but have not asked if they carry at work.
Below is the section of our handbook that addresses weapons. This is the only mention of any kind in the whole thing that remotely references weapons, so I'm a bit confused...does Texas law apply, does Kentucky? And what would be considered a "unlawful weapon" in the case of a CHL-er?
“Workplace Violence Prevention
Violence by an employee or anyone else against an employee, supervisor or customer will not be tolerated. The purpose of this policy is to minimize the potential risk of personal injuries to employees at work and to reduce the possibility of damage of company property in the event someone, for whatever reason, may be unhappy with a company decision or action by an employee or member of management.
If you receive or overhear any threatening communications from an employee or third party, or encounter an individual who is threatening immediate harm to an employee or third party, report it to a supervisor, director, Vice-President or the President of the company immediately. Do not engage in either physical or verbal confrontation with a potentially violent individual.
Absolutely no unlawful weapons will be allowed on company premises, which include the grounds and parking lots.
All reports of work-related threats will be kept confidential to the extent possible, investigated and documented. Employees are encouraged to report and participate in an investigation of any suspected or actual incident of workplace violence. Your failure to report or fully cooperate in the company’s investigation may result in discipline.
Violations of this policy will not be permitted, and will result in disciplinary action, up to and including discharge. Further, violations of this policy may be reported to law enforcement personnel and the offenders may be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law.”
“Workplace Searches
To protect the property and to ensure the safety of all employees, customers and the company, the company reserves the right to conduct personal searches consistent with state law, and to inspect any packages, parcels, purses, handbags, brief cases, lunch boxes or any other possessions or articles carried to and from the company’s property. In addition, the company reserves the right to search any employee’s office, desk, files, lockers, equipment, or any other area or article on our premises, including vehicles parked on company property. In this regard, it should be noted that all offices, desks, files, lockers, equipment, etc. are the property of the company, and are issued for the use of employees only during their employment. Inspection may be conducted at any time at the discretion of the company.
Employees working on or entering or leaving the premises who refuse to cooperate in an inspection, as well as employees who after the inspection are believed to be in possession of stolen property, unlawful weapons or illegal drugs or alcohol will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including discharge if, upon investigation, they are found to be in violation of the company’s security procedures or any other company rules and regulations.”
Can I carry? Or should I abstain for the sake of the job? It seems fairly obtuse and generic, as if to scare off someone that does not know the law, but I am trying to be diligent and make sure I know the facts. Comments and suggestions or proof of what is legal would be greatly appreciated.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 3241
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:51 pm
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Carry at work?
the relevant wording I see is "Unlawful"
1 - is your gun legal?
2 - are you legally allowed to carry (have CHL)
As # 2, you have already answered, and if I assume #1 is legal, then by the rules they posted, you are OK to carry
Can they still reprimand you? Sure.
Cant stop that, unless "Concealed is concealed" - keep it hidden, as you should for any concealed weapon.
1 - is your gun legal?
2 - are you legally allowed to carry (have CHL)
As # 2, you have already answered, and if I assume #1 is legal, then by the rules they posted, you are OK to carry
Can they still reprimand you? Sure.
Cant stop that, unless "Concealed is concealed" - keep it hidden, as you should for any concealed weapon.
League City, TX
Yankee born, but got to Texas as fast as I could! NRA / PSC / IANAL
Yankee born, but got to Texas as fast as I could! NRA / PSC / IANAL
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: SW Fort Worth
Re: Carry at work?
I read it as "is allowed" as well. However, it will not stop them from firing you if you ever are discovered, or if you ever have to use it.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964
30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.
NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor
30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.
NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor
Re: Carry at work?
I added the word unlawful to our policy for this exact reason. I am the GM so get to set the policy. Even though others are progun or chl, I wouldn't tell anyone you carry. Even progun people could be uncomfortable or turn on you. As others have said, if the company has a different interpretation they can terminate you. Texas is an "at will" state, giving employers have wide latitude in letting someone go.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 1376
- Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 5:54 pm
- Location: McLennan County
Re: Carry at work?
you could carry, regardless, since a company rule is not considered 30.06 effective notice. if caught, you could not be tried, but you could ber fired.
USMC, Retired
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.
Re: Carry at work?
PaJ wrote:I added the word unlawful to our policy for this exact reason. I am the GM so get to set the policy. Even though others are progun or chl, I wouldn't tell anyone you carry. Even progun people could be uncomfortable or turn on you. As others have said, if the company has a different interpretation they can terminate you. Texas is an "at will" state, giving employers have wide latitude in letting someone go.
I would not discuss this with ANYONE.
Texas LTC Instructor
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Life Patron Member TSRA Member
USMC 1972-1979
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Life Patron Member TSRA Member
USMC 1972-1979
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 2296
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:49 pm
- Location: North Ft Worth(Alliance area)
Re: Carry at work?
dont ask, dont tell
21-Apr-09 filed online
05-Sep-09 Plastic Arrived
09-Sep-13 Plastic Arrived
21-june-18 Plasic Arrived
05-Sep-09 Plastic Arrived
09-Sep-13 Plastic Arrived
21-june-18 Plasic Arrived
Re: Carry at work?
suthdj wrote:dont ask, dont tell
As written, I wouldn't see a problem carrying here.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 5038
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:56 am
- Location: Irving, Texas
Re: Carry at work?
The other statement is "the right to conduct personal searches consistent with state law". Unless there is probable cause, or consent given, then it would be an illegal search.
NRA-Benefactor Life member
TSRA-Life member
TSRA-Life member
Re: Carry at work?
There was a law passed last session or two I believe that allows you to carry and or leave your concealed gun in employee parking lots. So I think that part of the policy isn't accurate. The way the policy is written it if you're licensed to carry your weapon is legal. Could be up for interpretation I guess. Depends on who's interpreting, because it is somewhat vague. Why not just ask the person that sets company policy. Let him know that the parking lot part doesn't hold water in Texas. Almost sounds like policy was written for Kentucky. I'm betting they don't want you to carry while you're at work. Just lock it up in your car in the parking lot. I always love when these companies threaten you with losing your job to perform illegal searches. Do they make you sign the policy? Did they say your signature only shows that you have read and understand it? Sounds typical.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 1201
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:17 pm
- Location: Austin
Re: Carry at work?
4th Amendment and probable cause only apply to the government, not private businesses.RPBrown wrote:The other statement is "the right to conduct personal searches consistent with state law". Unless there is probable cause, or consent given, then it would be an illegal search.
In fact, the entire Bill of Rights only applies to the government. At your place of employment, you have no right to free speech, no right to bear arms, and no right to reasonable searches or to remain silent. Your employer can infringe on any of these rights and terminate you if you don't comply.
Keep calm and carry.
Licensing (n.) - When government takes away your right to do something and sells it back to you.
Licensing (n.) - When government takes away your right to do something and sells it back to you.
Re: Carry at work?
Thanks all for the feedback. I read it as being allowed to carry, as most of you all did.
And of course, "concealed means concealed" and "don't ask, don't tell" will absolutely apply, this was for my peace of mind, not something I wanted to ask about or discuss with the people there.
I appreciate the extra eyes looking at this.
And of course, "concealed means concealed" and "don't ask, don't tell" will absolutely apply, this was for my peace of mind, not something I wanted to ask about or discuss with the people there.
I appreciate the extra eyes looking at this.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 6096
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
- Location: Victoria, Texas
Re: Carry at work?
Looks allowed to me but I'd still go with "don't ask don't tell." My company's policy specifically allows CHL's to carry and I still practice "don't ask don't tell."
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 6096
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
- Location: Victoria, Texas
Re: Carry at work?
If you believe your employer might terminate you that would be a reason to be armed in spite of the policy.mr1337 wrote:4th Amendment and probable cause only apply to the government, not private businesses.RPBrown wrote:The other statement is "the right to conduct personal searches consistent with state law". Unless there is probable cause, or consent given, then it would be an illegal search.
In fact, the entire Bill of Rights only applies to the government. At your place of employment, you have no right to free speech, no right to bear arms, and no right to reasonable searches or to remain silent. Your employer can infringe on any of these rights and terminate you if you don't comply.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 1090
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:04 pm
- Location: Texas Hill Country
Re: Carry at work?
Looks pretty definitive and unambiguous to me - if you have a CHL then you are lawfully carrying. Like others have mentioned, don't ask, don't tell, keep it concealed and carry on.
LC9s, M&P 22, 9c, Sig P238-P239-P226-P365XL, 1911 clone