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Well, I've been lurking a couple weeks, and I guess it's time to come on out and ask a couple questions.

I've taken the class, sent in the stuff, and now I'm just waiting around. That gives me time to think, which is not always a good thing.

I have three questions, so far. I guess I'll put them all in separate posts.

My main motivation for getting a CHL is to be able to legally carry a sidearm while bowhunting. I spend a lot of time way out in the woods, mostly on public land, and I would be a lot more comfortable with more than a pointy stick for defense.

Which brings up my first question. What is the advisability of a non-lethal first round? A round of rat shot in the chamber is a good idea for snakes, but what about that same round for crazed meth cooker or "alternative" farmer? Are there legal implications to NOT using a lethal round that I should be aware of?

Sorry to go so long, I appreciate any thoughts.

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not aware of any legal implications of ammunition type. If you are justified in using deadly force, the type of force is not an issue. IANAL.

I've heard that pistol shot cartridges are so anemic that they will not kill even small animals. I don't know because I'm not going to perform that type of experiment.

Also, if you're talking about a semi-automatic pistol, rat shot may not cycle it. Then you could be in a heap of trouble.

- Jim

IANAL, but I think that any round that you use would legally be considered to represent a use of lethal force.

Exceptions might be beanbag rounds for a shotgun, or rubber bullet pistol rounds, but that would be about it.

But I don't see any point to going that way.

howdy man and welcome to the board.

It wasn't so long ago that I was pondering that question myself. I can only offer my own personal insight and opinion so take it as you will.

I can >> imagine << a scenario where i have to pull my weapon and not use it, but in my estimation by the time you get around to pulling it you should already be well justified in using it without prejudice. I would nix the less than lethal approach on your weapon and put another round in it's place.

If you're really concerned about less than lethal then just carry some nice triple action mace around with you. If that doesnt work you know you've got a full magazine of the good stuff to fall back on.

This is in response to Frankie's message. I typed too slowly.

I've been told that any use of a firearm is considered deadly force. I don't know if that comes from case law or what. The penal code does not specificaly define use of firearms as deadly force, but it's hinted at in the definition of deadly conduct:

§ 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.

- Jim

78641 wrote: Which brings up my first question. What is the advisability of a non-lethal first round? A round of rat shot in the chamber is a good idea for snakes, but what about that same round for crazed meth cooker or "alternative" farmer? Are there legal implications to NOT using a lethal round that I should be aware of?

IMHO, the rat shot 1st round and the non-lethal (I think they call it "less-lethal") 1st round is a bad idea for a self defense situation. You may bump into more than one BG and need all your rounds to be fully capable.

One thing to think about is only you will know that you are carrying rat-shot or less lethal ammo. To the other guy, it will be look like deadly force.

I have an idea. Carry two handguns. In addition to your normal carry, also carry a Taurus Judge with .410 shells in it for killing snakes and such.

Thanks for all the replies.

Carrying two guns is a nice idea, but I already drag around too much stuff, not to mention getting approval from the COO for another gun....

I guess I'll stick with the hollowpoints and wear my snake boots.

78641 wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

Carrying two guns is a nice idea, but I already drag around too much stuff, not to mention getting approval from the COO for another gun....

I guess I'll stick with the hollowpoints and wear my snake boots.

Welcome to the forum "Leander".


Just stick with the hollow-points, even they (HP's) are not guaranteed to stop anyone. Snake-shot/Rat-shot has a very limited range... and except for the possibility of putting an eye out, they would be next to useless on a "crazed meth-cooker".

Snake boots are always a good idea (for the ones you don't see), the ones you CAN see don't need shooting anyway, just go around them.

Bow season starts at the end of this month, so you'd better be practicing!

Good luck.


Flint.

Bow season starts at the end of this month, so you'd better be practicing!

Between exotics and hogs bow season doesn't ever really end, for me. I don't need no stinkin' practice!

Flintknapper, do I see you on a bowhunting forum from time to time? Maybe just a coincidence?

Hollowpoint ammunition works pretty well on snakes. Had a rattler that wanted to fight me eat a 200 grain Hornady XTP a week and a half ago. Needless to say, he didn't like the taste.

If you want to be able to carry self-defense ammo and rat/snake shot, I'd get a small revolver and load it with the shot, while still toting your primary carry. I have a NAA Mini-Revolver that, while not the most potent, should serve quite well as a snake gun. I've not tried it on a snake yet, though, so I don't know how well the shotshell would perform on a snake out of that little 1 7/8" barrel.

Other options would be a Taurus lightweight .38 with shotshells, or a similar S&W.

Thane wrote: Other options would be a Taurus lightweight .38 with shotshells, or a similar S&W.

I carry an old .38 loaded with CCI rat shot whenever I have a group on one of my canoeing or kayaking trips. Otherwise, during snake season I keep it in the door pocket of my pick-up. The .38 rat shot works great, as many, many dead snakes would testify....if they could. Just during the past week I killed one small rattler and two rats with the stuff.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness on anything less than the .38 though.

78641 wrote:Bow season starts at the end of this month, so you'd better be practicing!

Between exotics and hogs bow season doesn't ever really end, for me. I don't need no stinkin' practice!

Flintknapper, do I see you on a bowhunting forum from time to time? Maybe just a coincidence?

No, I don't belong to any BH forums, but archery is my first love when it comes to hunting. Been hunting with a bow for almost 40 years.

Heres all you need:




Good luck to you.