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Suppose you come out of your house and someone is breaking into your car, if you hold them at gunpoint until leo comes. Will that get you in any kind of trouble, he wasnt threatening your life.

It's a dicey situation.

Whether the attempted theft takes place at night makes a difference. You are justified in using deadly force to prevent theft during the night time, but not day time.

Then there's the possibility that the thief has one or more accomplices who could be a threat while you're focused on the person that you are detaining.

Then you have to ask yourself what you're going to do if the guy runs. Shooting someone who is running away in the back doesn't look good and probably is not justified.

There's no clear-cut answer. The best course of action depends upon circumstances.

- Jim

You can use force to stop property crime. Pulling your weapon can be considered force.

Realise just because you can pull your weapon (force) doesn't mean you can use deadly force. Think long and hard abotu that before you draw your weapon; because you could be in a situation where you can't legally use the weapon you just pulled legally.

EDIT: displaying a deadly weapon is considered force, but not deadly force, to clear that up.

One other thing: Unless the thief is on probation or parole (which is likely), he is going to be back on the street pretty soon with a grudge.

- Jim

Realise just because you can pull your weapon (force) doesn't mean you can use deadly force. Think long and hard abotu that before you draw your weapon; because you could be in a situation where you can't legally use the weapon you just pulled legally.

Good to know. That's why I like these scenario posts, they get needed information out there and get us thinking about responsibility.

If it's at night, that changes the law doesn't it?

Keep in mind, not using the weapon other than to contain (unless he does something real stupid that is threatening).

striker55 wrote:Keep in mind, not using the weapon other than to contain (unless he does something real stupid that is threatening).

huh? sorry, didn't follow that.

I told him not to move and that I was armed. I also told him that the police are on the way. He then lunged at me and I was without any other recourse. I drew my weapon to defend myself at which time the THIEF was wounded several times only to end the treat on my person.

I think it would go something like this.

I'd sneak up, yell "HEY" as soon as he turns and faces me BAM :)



Well officer I was walking to my car and encountered a criminal, when I told him to get away he turned at me with what looked like a gun(which was really a screwdriver to pop lock, but we didn't know that )

Sometimes you guys scare me.

Like i got room to talk but... man :)

RubenZ wrote:I'd sneak up, yell "HEY" as soon as he turns and faces me BAM :)
Well officer I was walking to my car and encountered a criminal, when I told him to get away he turned at me with what looked like a gun(which was really a screwdriver to pop lock, but we didn't know that )

nitrogen wrote:EDIT: displaying a deadly weapon is considered force, but not deadly force, to clear that up.

you are wrong.
"pulling your weapon" is a THREAT of deadly force, which is equitable, in the eyes of the law, to deadly force.
if you can't use deadly force, then you can't THREATEN to us deadly force, because DF was never in play.

however, in this situation, you can also argue that the Thief was going to get away with things that would be unrecoverable, in which DF is called for, FWIR.
also, a crime is still being committed until the criminal is completely gone.
if he is "getting away," the crime is still being committed, although he is no longer a "threat."
so if theft of a vehicle at night, or vandalism to your vehicle at night, is the crime that justifies DF, then them running away is not necesarily going to save them.

DoubleJ wrote:"pulling your weapon" is a THREAT of deadly force, which is equitable, in the eyes of the law, to deadly force.

Here is the relevant law:

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

You can use force (but not deadly force) to stop theft during the day time. Therefore the production of a weapon is justified to stop theft.

The legal problem is that you are not justified in producing a handgun when you are not on your own premises unless the use of deadly force is justified. In that case, you could be prosecuted for intentionlly failing to conceal.

I seriously doubt that charges would be bought if someone used a handgun to prevent vehicle theft. People have been prosecuted for failing to conceal in road-rage incidents.

- Jim

So if I catch someone in the act of stealing my car in a public place such as a mall parking lot I could could not use DF to prevent the theft? Would I be technical breaking any laws by detaining him at gunpoint? Does it matter if it is day or night?

omegadeluz77 wrote:So if I catch someone in the act of stealing my car in a public place such as a mall parking lot I could could not use DF to prevent the theft? Would I be technical breaking any laws by detaining him at gunpoint? Does it matter if it is day or night?

It matters very much whether it is day or night. PC §9.42 justifies using deadly force to prevent theft during the night time, but not during the day.

During the day, force is justified. Producing a weapon is specifically defined as not deadly force in the penal code. You also detain someone who commits or attempts to commit a felony under the authority of Code of Criminal Procedure §14.01.

The fly in the ointment is PC §46.035, which makes it an offense to fail to conceal your handgun unless you are justified in using deadly force. However, I can't see the police prosecuting if you stop an actual attempted car theft.

- Jim