Carry in a post office and police station???

[fickman]

My CHL instructors had a different take regarding Grapevine Mills. They said that 30.06 must be posted at each public entrance according to the law (size, colors, prominence, etc.).

Wishful thinking, unfortunately. When 30.06 defines the requirements for legal notice "every entrance" is never mentioned. In fact "entrance" is never mentioned. Therefore, there is no requirement that the sign be placed an any specific location, and certainly no requirement that there must be a sign at every entrance. Now, that isn't to say that if you entered through an entrance without a sign unknowingly, that you might not get a break...You might. However, I'll bet if you said you went looking for a door without a sign and therefore couldn't be held criminally liable, I'm willing to bet they'd take a dim view of the potential strength of that particular legal theory.

I posted in another thread, too. . . feel free to respond there if you are afraid of hijacking this topic.

What about the anchor stores? Most of them do not have 30.06 signs. They operate somewhat independently of the mall. . . they can have their own hours, their own security, etc. Then, if you enter the mall through a department store, there is never a 30.06 sign posted. I'm not trying to be convenient here. . . I think it's an important distinction to hammer out. Do the 30.06 signs only govern the main concourse areas? The entire property? The internal stores but not the department stores? The department store entrances are usually 30 yards or more closer to the parking lot than the mall entrances, so you have no chance of seeing a sign when you enter one. I never heard of a requirement to investigate all entrances to a building. . . the sign should be posted prominently so that I'm informed of the rules as I enter. A significant number of people probably never use the actual mall entrances. . . I wouldn't have even known about those signs if my CHL instructors hadn't tipped me off to their existence.

On topic:
Regarding police stations, you cannot take a CCW anywhere that they have prisoners. In Bedford, you could take one on the right side of the building, but not through the controlled-access door to the jail side of the building. Likewise, you could not use the left entrance that leads to the jail lobby.

[The Annoyed Man]

My CHL instructors had a different take regarding Grapevine Mills. They said that 30.06 must be posted at each public entrance according to the law (size, colors, prominence, etc.). They just said to pick your entrance carefully. . . if you entered a legal public entrance and were not notified, then there's no way for them to expect you to comply. The law doesn't say that you must investigate every entrance of a building before knowing if you can carry.

I'm not trying to say this as "matter-of-fact" except to say this is what my instructors said in 2004. (I took the class at Bass Pro Shop.)

fickman, glad to see that you joined up! I have the following problems with GMM:

1. Their 30.06 posting seems to be ambiguous. When I took the course in 12/07 (the same guys you took if from, apparently), the instructors told us that the "loophole" entrance at GMM had since been properly posted. I never cared enough about the place to want to go see for myself. I just stay away from it.
2. Even if you do comply and secure your weapon in your vehicle before going into the mall, as you well know from reading local newspapers, the GMM parking lot is crawling with car burglars. I can have no reasonable expectation when I park there that my car will not be broken into before I get back.
3. Mall walkers. Don't you just hate them? They have aaaaaaaall day to walk as slowly as they want to, 6 abreast so you can get by them. If it were just legal to tase mall walkers, I might feel differently about it.

I just don't go there. I haven't been there since before I got my CHL.

[fickman]

My CHL instructors had a different take regarding Grapevine Mills. They said that 30.06 must be posted at each public entrance according to the law (size, colors, prominence, etc.). They just said to pick your entrance carefully. . . if you entered a legal public entrance and were not notified, then there's no way for them to expect you to comply. The law doesn't say that you must investigate every entrance of a building before knowing if you can carry.

I'm not trying to say this as "matter-of-fact" except to say this is what my instructors said in 2004. (I took the class at Bass Pro Shop.)

fickman, glad to see that you joined up! I have the following problems with GMM:

1. Their 30.06 posting seems to be ambiguous. When I took the course in 12/07 (the same guys you took if from, apparently), the instructors told us that the "loophole" entrance at GMM had since been properly posted. I never cared enough about the place to want to go see for myself. I just stay away from it.
2. Even if you do comply and secure your weapon in your vehicle before going into the mall, as you well know from reading local newspapers, the GMM parking lot is crawling with car burglars. I can have no reasonable expectation when I park there that my car will not be broken into before I get back.
3. Mall walkers. Don't you just hate them? They have aaaaaaaall day to walk as slowly as they want to, 6 abreast so you can get by them. If it were just legal to tase mall walkers, I might feel differently about it.

I just don't go there. I haven't been there since before I got my CHL.

I share your sentiments. It's rare that I go. I took my course at Bass Pro from Cary Mellema and Jim Wolfe. I'd recommend them to anybody, btw. I go to the AMC theater there, but I don't recall it being 30.06. I also go to a few of the anchor stores. On the rare occasions that I go into the actual mall, I enter through an anchor. I'm not trying to circumvent the posting, it's just the normal entrance I naturally gravitate to. I agree that leaving it in the car at this mall is not a great idea.

I prefer NE Mall and Southlake Town Center if I have to go shopping. . . although since the second kiddo arrived in October that hasn't happened except for trips to Wal-Mart and Target.

On edit: I forgot to say "thank you" for telling me about this forum. This is exactly what I've been looking for. The other ones I have joined were a mess or filled with nasty, seemingly illiterate people. I'm diving in head first here. It's amazing what I've learned (some of the things I was taught in '04 when I took my class have changed, and I've felt disconnected from the CHL community over the last four years, just running into one from time to time).

[Shaggy]

I carry in Bass Pro in Grapevine all the time. In fact, I shoot at their range a good amount of time too. They are very CHL friendly unless something has changed in the last two weeks.

Also the only supposed 30.06 signs that I have seen at entrances to the Grapevine Mall are not valid under the current law due to incorrect wording and refer to something other than H 411, unless they have recently updated them.

We actually discussed this in our CHL class and while the signage may not be valid, the Grapevine PD seem to think it is. They are also supposed to ask you to leave and only if you refuse to comply with an instruction from a police officer will you actually be in trouble. Also IIRC a security guard (unless they are actually a police officer) and other mall employees do not have the authority to actually ask you to leave, albeit they will probably call the police if you dont.

[SlowDave]

Also IIRC a security guard (unless they are actually a police officer) and other mall employees do not have the authority to actually ask you to leave, albeit they will probably call the police if you dont.

As far as notification of 30.06 ("we don't want you to carry here"), it only needs to be an employee apparently acting under authority of the owner.
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PC 30.06
a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another w/o effective consent; and
2) received notice that:
A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
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So, I'd assume that the security guard is "someone with apparent authority to act for the owner" and that his "notice" is therefore binding.