Weapon Free School Zone?

[dds115]

Sorry to bring up a topic that I'm sure has been beaten to death, but I am in a bit of an argument with one of my "no one should own a gun" friends. And no, I'm not sure why we're still friends. So I guess I'm needing help finding something that says that a parking lot is not an area of a school sponsored event?



Him - here is your problem unfortunately. virtually every state has a law banning guns on school grounds including texas. and this law makes it illegal for you to carry on school grounds in any state you're not licensed in. de facto=no carry on school grounds

Me - Could you point me to that Texas law?

Him - Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution

an before you come back with the premises bull, a decent lawyer argues that the parking lot of the school at all times has activities sponsored by the educational institution because students have to attend school and they are constantly moving between parking lots and the building. therefore, during school hours a continuous time frame exists of school sponsored activities on institutional ground

Me- Notably, the new statute acknowledges an employer’s right to prohibit employees from carrying a firearm on its “premises,” but adopts the Texas Penal Code's narrow definition of premises—“a building or a portion of a building.” This definition of "premises" does not encompass all of the employer’s property, such as private or public driveways, streets, sidewalks, walkways, parking lots, parking garages, or other parking areas.

On my phone so I can't get the exact legal definition, but that is the summary.

Him - thats why i'm saying that the premises clause of the texas statute isn't key. its actually the institutional sponsored activity thats key. it could be interpreted to be a much more expansive clause because restrictions don't exist on what can be classified as sponsored

[Keith B]

Sorry to bring up a topic that I'm sure has been beaten to death, but I am in a bit of an argument with one of my "no one should own a gun" friends. And no, I'm not sure why we're still friends. So I guess I'm needing help finding something that says that a parking lot is not an area of a school sponsored event?



Him - here is your problem unfortunately. virtually every state has a law banning guns on school grounds including texas. and this law makes it illegal for you to carry on school grounds in any state you're not licensed in. de facto=no carry on school grounds

Me - Could you point me to that Texas law?

Him - Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution

an before you come back with the premises bull, a decent lawyer argues that the parking lot of the school at all times has activities sponsored by the educational institution because students have to attend school and they are constantly moving between parking lots and the building. therefore, during school hours a continuous time frame exists of school sponsored activities on institutional ground

Me- Notably, the new statute acknowledges an employer’s right to prohibit employees from carrying a firearm on its “premises,” but adopts the Texas Penal Code's narrow definition of premises—“a building or a portion of a building.” This definition of "premises" does not encompass all of the employer’s property, such as private or public driveways, streets, sidewalks, walkways, parking lots, parking garages, or other parking areas.

On my phone so I can't get the exact legal definition, but that is the summary.

Him - thats why i'm saying that the premises clause of the texas statute isn't key. its actually the institutional sponsored activity thats key. it could be interpreted to be a much more expansive clause because restrictions don't exist on what can be classified as sponsored

I believe what he is arguing is that if there are kids there, then it is a school sponsored activity. It is believed that a school sponsored activity is like football, band, cheer leading practice, etc. Dropping off and picking up your kids is not a school sponsored activity as they either have not started for the day, or have finished for the day.

Now, there are no known test cases of this that I am aware of. However, I do know of an individual who was charged with disorderly conduct for arguing with an officer (wrongfully, but that's beside the point) while picking up his kids from school, and his license was suspended because of that, but they did not charge him under TPC 46.03 for having his handgun on school property while a sponsored activity was going on (since there wasn't one.)

[nguyen925]

Just read in another thread that if you're within 1000 ft of a school and or zone you aren't legally able to carry a gun in your car BUT if you have a CHL you're allowed to have a CC as long as you don't enter the school buildings. Glad I got a CHL because I do pass through 3-4 school zones on my way to my college campus AND i passed through a school while turning into my subdivision.

[alvins]

heck in friendswood their is a gun range right down the street from clearbrook high school. Its indoor without the backstop you would be firing at the school with nothing to stop it. Ive never heard of anyone complain about it. explain that?

[agarcia82]

My chl instructor said it was ok to have a gun in the parking lots of schools also when you go drop off and pick up your child..just not inside the school.. he also said you can cary a gun while you walk on the schools side walk but as soon as you step on the grass of the school property it was a big no no.

[Dave2]

Just read in another thread that if you're within 1000 ft of a school and or zone you aren't legally able to carry a gun in your car BUT if you have a CHL you're allowed to have a CC as long as you don't enter the school buildings. Glad I got a CHL because I do pass through 3-4 school zones on my way to my college campus AND i passed through a school while turning into my subdivision.

How does that work for people who live within 1000ft of a school? Are they not allowed to have a gun in their own home?

My chl instructor said it was ok to have a gun in the parking lots of schools also when you go drop off and pick up your child..just not inside the school.. he also said you can cary a gun while you walk on the schools side walk but as soon as you step on the grass of the school property it was a big no no.

You'll definitely wanna double check this with a lawyer, but I believe your instructor was wrong... The same CHL that allows you to carry your gun while you pick up your kid on the way home would allow you to carry it while you stroll across their lawn to greet your child at the front door (as long as you don't go inside). Now, as skittish as people are these days, one could easily question the wisdom of walking onto campus carrying a gun without having a reason to be there, but AFAIK it's legal.

[Jumping Frog]

My chl instructor said it was ok to have a gun in the parking lots of schools also when you go drop off and pick up your child..just not inside the school.. he also said you can cary a gun while you walk on the schools side walk but as soon as you step on the grass of the school property it was a big no no.

He was wrong. The only exception would be if there was a school activity underway on the grass in that vicinity.

This defines where it is illegal:

PC §46.03.(a)(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

This defines "premises":

PC §46.035.(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

[Jumping Frog]

How does that work for people who live within 1000ft of a school? Are they not allowed to have a gun in their own home?

The federal GFSZ exempts all private property.

[C-dub]

My chl instructor said it was ok to have a gun in the parking lots of schools also when you go drop off and pick up your child..just not inside the school.. he also said you can cary a gun while you walk on the schools side walk but as soon as you step on the grass of the school property it was a big no no.

He was close. You can be anywhere outside of a building on school property. I routinely pick my daughter up, while carrying right up to the front door area. The kids all come outside and area released to a parent or other approved person there. Although, this could remotely be considered a school activity, but I doubt it, it is still pick up or drop off.

[jmorris]

.......
This defines "premises":

PC §46.035.(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Ah ha! They didn't specifically include grass in that list so obviously you're forbidden to carry there.

[jmorris]

.......
This defines "premises":

PC §46.035.(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Ah ha! They didn't specifically include grass in that list so obviously you're forbidden to carry there.

[agarcia82]

.......
This defines "premises":

PC §46.035.(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Ah ha! They didn't specifically include grass in that list so obviously you're forbidden to carry there.

Good point..lol

[Jumping Frog]

.......
This defines "premises":

PC §46.035.(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Ah ha! They didn't specifically include grass in that list so obviously you're forbidden to carry there.

Are you joking?

How is '"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building.' unclear? Do you have grass buildings?

[C-dub]

Parking on the grass is usually a code violation in most cities.