Fees for CHL classes TOO expensive!

[Charles L. Cotton]

I just don't see $50 being a deal breaker one way or the other. However, I believe you have the right to charge whatever you like. I also applaud your motives.

Looks like they haven't checked in since Jan 8th. Look at their first couple of posts to the forum and makes you wonder WHAT their motives were?

Chas.

[ScooterSissy]

...
I knew an older preacher who retired and moved to a community and began attending a church there. As it turned out, they were looking for a preacher. They asked him if he would preach for them while they were looking for a preacher. He immediatly said "Sure....how much you going to pay me?" They were floored, but agreed to an amount.... he then would put that check back into the collection plate. He said he did it for several reasons (1) If he did it for free, they would have probably stopped looking for a preacher, since they could get him for free. (2) If he had done it for free, it wouldn't have been fair to the next preacher, as they would then think they could get his services for free or cheap (3) People, he said, don't seem to appreciate free preaching as much. I believe those last two points apply to the CHL classes as well.
...

I'm new here, been lurking for a while, waiting for my CHL to come back, and have been "MPA carrying" while I wait. This post piqued my interest because:

• I myself reached a similar solution to the one above
• My CHL instructor did something similar to what I'm going to suggest to the OP

First, here's the situation similar to the one above. I'm a computer network engineer by trade. I've done it for about 23 years now, and make a pretty decent salary. In the past, I also did the same work as an independent contractor, and billed at a pretty decent hourly rate.
As I got more experienced in my job, and as friends and acquaintances (church, clubs, etc) learned what I do, I pretty regularly got "Hey, can you look at my computer, it's doing xyz". I usually (reluctantly) agreed. then one evening I noticed that I had spent over 3 hours working on a computer given to a pastor friend "for free", and it occurred to me that had I billed my regular rate, it would have paid for almost half what a new computer was worth. I really didn't mind doing the work, but felt that those that asked probably had no idea how much I got paid for doing (somewhat) similar work in the business world (at the time, I billed $75 an hour, it's gone up since then).
A business owner (one that I contracted with) had long told me that people will typically not place a higher value on your work than what you present to them. In other words, if I charged nothing, they thought it was worthless.
I came up with a solution that has worked well for me. I send a regular bill, including my hourly rate for the number of hours worked. Then I show a discount for whatever the $ amoun that comes to. This way, the person realizes that's what I normally get paid, and they get an sense of the value of what was done for the. It's usually an eye-opener for them. It also has the side affect of making them somewhat hesitant to offer my "free" services to their friends. "He fixed it for me for free" suddenly becomes "He fixed, and usually charges a lot, but he discounted it for me." It's also worth mentioning that if you do this for a 501(c) group, you can count it as a donation for services in kind.

Now, on to my CHL story - A lady that is a CHL instructor at our church has two kids who grew up involved in the youth group. She felt she wanted to give something back to the youth department, but didn't have a lot of money to donate. Instead, she offered a CHL class to those at the church that were interested, charged a very typical $100 per person, and stated the money would go to the youth department. 15 of us (she filled the class) got our CHL instructions, and the youth department got a $1500 donation. That was a cool move!

So, here's what you may want to consider - I agree with some other comments I've seen, that you really won't make a big dent in adding new gun-owners by charging a discounted rate. How about instead, charge the standard rate, and then donate the money back to one of the organizations fighting for more "constitution friendly" gun laws? You'd probably get more bang for you buck (no pun intended), you wouldn't degrade the market for other instructors, those attending the class would get their money's worth, and a good cause would benefit.
Sounds like a win all around.

[Keith B]

Welcome to the forum ScooterSissy.

Great first post and great food for thought not only for CHL instructors, but anyone who has a cottage business of some type.

We look forward to your interaction here on the boards!!

[RoyGBiv]

So, here's what you may want to consider - I agree with some other comments I've seen, that you really won't make a big dent in adding new gun-owners by charging a discounted rate. How about instead, charge the standard rate, and then donate the money back to one of the organizations fighting for more "constitution friendly" gun laws? You'd probably get more bang for you buck (no pun intended), you wouldn't degrade the market for other instructors, those attending the class would get their money's worth, and a good cause would benefit.
Sounds like a win all around.

And the amount you donated would be a tax deduction to you if the organization was a 501(c)3 [charity].

[jmra]

Speaking as a customer (I'm not an instructor);

I would not be interested in any "large class" regardless of how cheap it is. The availability of an instructor to answer each and every reasonable question of every student is priceless as far as I am concerned and the only way to do this is in a small class. In fact I am tempted to have the members of my family pitch in to have an instructor do a renewal class just for us.

As far as this whole thing being too expensive, I see kids on welfare wearing shoes that cost more than a CHL class. Simply put people find a way to pay for things they really want. If this is something they want they will find a way to fund it.

If anything were to change I would suggest having much of the material that is currently covered in class available for preview online much the same way defensive driving courses may be taken online or a live course. The student could then attend an abbreviated class much like the renewal class. This would allow the student to come prepared with questions/concerns and not tie up instructors for a full day.

[Salty1]

[quote="jmra"]Speaking as a customer (I'm not an instructor);

I would not be interested in any "large class" regardless of how cheap it is. The availability of an instructor to answer each and every reasonable question of every student is priceless as far as I am concerned and the only way to do this is in a small class.

I could not agree more with jmra, first and foremost I look for quality instruction, if the instructor believes that the class should be done via PowerPoint presentations I would not be interested. I have sat through too many death by PowerPoint presentations over the years. Because somebody has gone through the DPS Instructors course does not make them a good instructor. From my perspective I want more lecture and discussion time than being read slides which is why I went to Greybeard's class (Denton County Sports) which was very interactive and delivered all the infomation in a logical and professional manor.

[WildBill]

I have sat through too many death by PowerPoint presentations over the years.

Powerpoint has become the bane of teaching and instruction.

[wgoforth]

I have sat through too many death by PowerPoint presentations over the years.

Powerpoint has become the bane of teaching and instruction.

Anything can be overdone. As a professional speaker, i know that the more senses engaged, the more retained. Too many slides get monotenous. Having an outline or the actual page from the CHL-16 can have you all on the same page. Before ppt, we used overhead projectors and white boards and chalk boards. Used to see old time preachers have elaboate pictures and outlines painted on flat bedsheets to hang up... they were affectionatly known as "ragged sermons." Key is, a little goes a long way.

[Art S]

I have sat through too many death by PowerPoint presentations over the years.

Powerpoint has become the bane of teaching and instruction.

It is not the Power Point presentation that kills a class. it is the instructor that does not use it properly that kills a class.
You get a good instructor with a good Power Point presentation plus other teaching tools and you will have a good class.

[WildBill]

I have sat through too many death by PowerPoint presentations over the years.

Powerpoint has become the bane of teaching and instruction.

It is not the Power Point presentation that kills a class. it is the instructor that does not use it properly that kills a class.
You get a good instructor with a good Power Point presentation plus other teaching tools and you will have a good class.

Just like a chalk board, flip chart, overheads and white board, PowerPoint has a place in teaching and instruction. As Salty1 stated it is supposed to be a teaching tool. IMO, it is overused and is used as a substitute for real classroom instruction.

One of my biggest gripes is that I can read perfectly well - I don't need an "instructor" to read the presentation to me. Unless the instructor provides additional information, explanation, or examples I can learn the same information sitting in front of my computer monitor.

[Running Arrow Bill]

One often gets what they pay for...

IMO, if one cannot afford the class, they can't afford ammo to practice to proficiency... (or buy a quality gun with high reliability).

[Songbird]

Just got my CHL a couple of months ago and paid $50 for the class, so it's doable. I appreciated not having to pay the $100+ that most charge for the class.

[wgoforth]

Just got my CHL a couple of months ago and paid $50 for the class, so it's doable. I appreciated not having to pay the $100+ that most charge for the class.

May I ask where you got it at that rate? By the time I pay for advertising ($120), lunch ($10... as it is at a restaurant's side room. Then I show an approved video at lunch to apply to the required 10 hours), range fee ($8) out of my $99, yeah I could lower it to that if you paid for all of that yourself and I wasn't advertising...and if didn't use higher tech things like a power-point projector and laser training pistols for in class use. Did they use those items or just lecture you for 10 hours? Which way do you think you could learn and remember better? I will train a disabled vet for free, and give law enforcement a discount ($85 rather than $99)...but if an individual called and offered me $50, I would frankly turn it down.

[gdanaher]

My wife just completed her class this week. She paid $80 for the class, learned a great deal, conceded I was right about a few things she had argued about before, and overall felt like it was a bargain. In this world you get what you pay for. Some things you don't cut corners on. Open heart surgery and and gun safety classes come to mind first.

[jmra]

My wife just completed her class this week. She paid $80 for the class, learned a great deal, conceded I was right about a few things she had argued about before, and overall felt like it was a bargain. In this world you get what you pay for. Some things you don't cut corners on. Open heart surgery and and gun safety classes come to mind first.

Getting your wife to admit you were right...Priceless!