Secure compliance vs. Convertible Automobile

[Purplehood]

I think this is finally going well, good directives from those more experienced.
I still need to post security vs. children (home, car, whatever) Texas law to gain equally good spotlighting & parsing.

Como?

[7075-T7]

I think this is finally going well, good directives from those more experienced.
I still need to post security vs. children (home, car, whatever) Texas law to gain equally good spotlighting & parsing.

Como?

I see your como and raise you a

[Fawkes]

I think this is finally going well, good directives from those more experienced.
I still need to post security vs. children (home, car, whatever) Texas law to gain equally good spotlighting & parsing.

Como?

I see your como and raise you a

I fold...

[gigag04]

This thread is a joke right? I think someone is jacking with us. Wait...that's my opinion.

[7075-T7]

Btt,

My Non-opinion is to dismantle the firearm in question to the detail strip level, lock each component in an IP68 rated enclosure, then secure all of those boxes in an armoured safe with a minimum of 3 hour rating to incursion. Secure this to the ground outside of the vehicle with a minimum of 4x 1" diameter grade 5+ taper-bolt anchors that have a minimum ultimate tensile strength of 28,270lbs and an minimum ultimate shear of 36,275. This safe must have retroreflective camouflage to conceal it from being a safe to the eyes of a reasonable person. Then you will be in compliance with Texas law.

IANAL

[BrianSW99]

The only requirement to secure a weapon that I'm aware of is in PC§46.13:

PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is
loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an ag-ricultural enterprise.

According to this statute, just keeping the gun in a locked vehicle, even a convertible with the top up, should meet these requirements as long as you don't give a child the key. If someone breaks into your vehicle, child or otherwise, it would be a defense to prosecution under this statute because that entry would be illegal (see red above). I don't see any other legal requirement to keep the weapon in any sort of locked container or secured area inside the vehicle because just being in a locked vehicle should meet the requirements of section (a)(3) above.

That said, I keep mine in a steel lock box secured under the seat when I have to leave it in the car. But, that's more to prevent it from being stolen in a smash and grab, not to meet any legal requirements.

Of course, usual disclaimers apply: IMHO, IANAL, etc...

Brian

[bdickens]

Stashing the gun under the seat and locking the car - even if it is a convertible - is not the same as leaving it lying around on the coffee table.

[bayouhazard]

Stashing the gun under the seat and locking the car - even if it is a convertible - is not the same as leaving it lying around on the coffee table.

It is if you lock the door to the house.

[Islands7]

The only requirement to secure a weapon that I'm aware of is in PC§46.13:

PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is
loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an ag-ricultural enterprise.

According to this statute, just keeping the gun in a locked vehicle, even a convertible with the top up, should meet these requirements as long as you don't give a child the key. If someone breaks into your vehicle, child or otherwise, it would be a defense to prosecution under this statute because that entry would be illegal (see red above). I don't see any other legal requirement to keep the weapon in any sort of locked container or secured area inside the vehicle because just being in a locked vehicle should meet the requirements of section (a)(3) above.

That said, I keep mine in a steel lock box secured under the seat when I have to leave it in the car. But, that's more to prevent it from being stolen in a smash and grab, not to meet any legal requirements.

Of course, usual disclaimers apply: IMHO, IANAL, etc...

Brian

EXCELLENT! .... and many thanks for the detailed refresher.

[Islands7]

And, BTW on your off-limits locaitons, you are not required to leave your CCW behind when going into a church unless it is 30.06 posted or you have recevied oral notification to not carry there.

OK, help me with this reading & yes I am new:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

You didn't read far enough. A few paragraphs further down, it says that a church, synagogue or other place of religious worship must post a 30.06 sign to keep CHL out, which means that the default position is that church carry is legal. Your instructor, if competent, should have pointed that out to you. In fact, a number of us not only carry in church, we carry on stage and in the pulpit in church.

EXCELLENT! .... and thank you two for a deeper understanding of how law is written, as well as real life carry practices.

[gigag04]

EXCELLENT! .... and thank you two for a deeper understanding of how law is written, as well as real life carry practices.

Do you have a CHL? Have you posted an introduction yet as to some of your background so we know where you're coming from?

Just curious.

[laketex]

I drive a topless Suzuki Samurai around town. I lock my gun in the glovebox when I'm not able to carry it. I hate it because I don't think it's secure enough, but it's better than being illegal imho.

[Purplehood]

And, BTW on your off-limits locaitons, you are not required to leave your CCW behind when going into a church unless it is 30.06 posted or you have recevied oral notification to not carry there.

OK, help me with this reading & yes I am new:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

You didn't read far enough. A few paragraphs further down, it says that a church, synagogue or other place of religious worship must post a 30.06 sign to keep CHL out, which means that the default position is that church carry is legal. Your instructor, if competent, should have pointed that out to you. In fact, a number of us not only carry in church, we carry on stage and in the pulpit in church.

EXCELLENT! .... and thank you two for a deeper understanding of how law is written, as well as real life carry practices.

Wow, we get grades on our posts now. Excellent.

[LarryH]

I drive a topless Suzuki Samurai around town. I lock my gun in the glovebox when I'm not able to carry it. I hate it because I don't think it's secure enough, but it's better than being illegal imho.

The lockable case that you can secure (with chains, etc.) under your seat would be more secure. Google "portable gun safe" for some examples.

[laketex]

I drive a topless Suzuki Samurai around town. I lock my gun in the glovebox when I'm not able to carry it. I hate it because I don't think it's secure enough, but it's better than being illegal imho.

The lockable case that you can secure (with chains, etc.) under your seat would be more secure. Google "portable gun safe" for some examples.

There is no space under the seat in this vehicle. I'm in process of gathering parts to redo the interior with a full cage and integrated seats. I plan on a tiny little console in between the seats that locks for my gun.