CHL & Motorcycles

[DaveHD]

Have some questions that weren't even thought of in CHL class. I know the Castle doctrine allows you to carry a loaded weapon in your vehicle as an extension of your residence without a CHL. What about on a scooter?

Also, our instructor told us that a CHL holder must leave the weapon secured in the vehicle if at a bar (duh...makes sense), but what about on a bike. I ride with groups and we sometimes just end up at a bar. If I'm carrying, do I have to disarm in front of God and everyone and throw the damn thing in a saddlebag? Luckily, my bags lock, but it still doesn't seem like a real bright idea. I know that you cannot carry when consuming ANY alcohol, but can anyone clarify this for a simple minded

[flb_78]

Actually, it's the Motorists Protection Act that allows one to carry in a vehicle and yes, it applies to us scooter trash.

You cannot carry into a 51% establishment. I no longer go to 51% establishments because of this and I don't ride with those who do frequent those establishments.

If you were to stop at a bar, yes, you would have to disarm before you entered.

You are misinformed that you cannot have any alcohol while carrying. The law says you cannot be impaired while carrying, but there is no legal limit on the books about alcohol and CHL. On occasion, I do have a beer sometimes when I go out to eat.

[DaveHD]

flb_78,
Thanks for the info. Will certainly keep that in mind. Since I have found some sccotertrash, do you have any info on motorcycle concealment vests? I've heard of them, but can't find any details. I heard that they run about $80 and can easily conceal large frame autos. Please let me know if you know where I can find them.

Also, had a question on the bar thing. Our istructor said that the bar had to be marked with the 51% sign in order for you to not be allowed to carry there. Is that true? Also, he said the the generic no firearms sign (the one with the circle and line through a picture of a gun) held no legal teeth. I know businesses have to post the 30.06 sign, but can I still get in deep for carrying in an establishment that does not post the actual 30.06 sign?

Thanks again for all the info. Take care.

Dave

[Keith B]

flb_78,
Thanks for the info. Will certainly keep that in mind. Since I have found some sccotertrash, do you have any info on motorcycle concealment vests? I've heard of them, but can't find any details. I heard that they run about $80 and can easily conceal large frame autos. Please let me know if you know where I can find them.

Also, had a question on the bar thing. Our istructor said that the bar had to be marked with the 51% sign in order for you to not be allowed to carry there. Is that true? Also, he said the the generic no firearms sign (the one with the circle and line through a picture of a gun) held no legal teeth. I know businesses have to post the 30.06 sign, but can I still get in deep for carrying in an establishment that does not post the actual 30.06 sign?

Thanks again for all the info. Take care.

Dave

A bar does not have to be posted with a sign to be unable to carry there. They just have to be licensed as a 51% establishment. They are supposed to post a sign per the law, but the absence of one does not allow us to legally carry there.

A business has to have a legal 30.06 or give you verbal notice to prohibit you from carrying there, unless they are already a place prohibited by law. Your instructor should have covered this in depth in class.

[TxDrifter]

After managing a 51% establishment at the Renaissance Festival and suffering frequent checks by TABC, I can concur on this. If you don't post the sign TABC can fine you as well. We had a vacationing TABC officer giving everyone the hardest time because some signs weren't up. Our 51% sign was up, but the "duh" we check IDs and don't serve to anyone under 21 posters weren't. By the time they were done the front of the bar looked like a wall of theater ads.

You should be able to tell if it is a 51% establishment or not and its absence doesn't preclude you from following the restrictions on those establishments.

[tfrazier]

By November 4 I will be the proud owner of a Triumph Rocket III.



I'll probably be joining up with a few old buddies, but anyone I ride with is going to know I'm CHL and be aware that I won't go into a 51% or 30.06 posted establishment. Shouldn't be a problem since my brother is CHL and most of my buddies are either CHL, former, or current LEO.

I'm thinking in the rare event I do have to disarm I'll just find some cover to do it in, wrap it up in a towel or do-rag, and return to the bike to drop it in the saddlebag. People may think I'm sneaking off to smoke crack or something, but that's better than some crook seeing me stick a thousand dollar piece of hardware in my saddle bag and walking away.

But I would like to know what specific carry rigs might be on the market for motorcyclists, if anyone has any info to share.

I'm thinking my current shoulder rig for the 1911 would be pretty uncomfortable under a leather bike jacket...and not too crazy about the SmartCarry rig while sitting on a bike for two-hundred miles, either.

Maybe I should just duct tape it between my shoulder blades ala Bruce Willis in the first "Die Hard" movie!

[mactex]

flb_78,
Thanks for the info. Will certainly keep that in mind. Since I have found some sccotertrash, do you have any info on motorcycle concealment vests? I've heard of them, but can't find any details. I heard that they run about $80 and can easily conceal large frame autos. Please let me know if you know where I can find them.

Check out stores like MotoLiberty here in San Antonio. Some of them carry the "Concealed Carry Vest" which has a rather large pocket and enough stiff leather to prevent printing. Vests are not my cup of tea, but they work for others!

[Morgan]

1) I often wear a Maxpidetion Versipack when I'm on motorcycle. It carries a gun, couple mags, wallet, cell phone, hat... they're great. It's a messenger bag...NOT A PURSE! LOL

2) FLB said that "there is no legal limit on the books about alcohol and CHL." Please correct me if I'm wrong but what I understood was that "the law" says that a person is impaired if they're shown to be impaired or if their BAC is over .08. This "legal impairment" is then utilized by the motor vehicle rules and regulations to determine that a driver has violated the DUI rules, and is likewise the essential criteria for determining that a CHL carrier is in violation... carrying while impaired. Is that incorrect? I only seek to understand, I'm really a 1 drink kind guy when I'm carrying, but also almost always when I'm NOT carrying, because frankly I'm cheap. LOL If I want a bunch of drinks, I'm doing it at home, where it's a far site less expensive than it is at the restaurants and bars! LOL

BTW: Congrats on that Rocket. They're AWESOME. My buddy with the Speedmaster will be jealous. If you haven't seen this video, it's a must see for Rocket owners and motorcycle enthusiasts in general, but frankly it's pretty funny for others as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FLB - google "leather concealed carry vest" and you'll get a bunch of hits.

[Skiprr]

2) FLB said that "there is no legal limit on the books about alcohol and CHL." Please correct me if I'm wrong but what I understood was that "the law" says that a person is impaired if they're shown to be impaired or if their BAC is over .08. This "legal impairment" is then utilized by the motor vehicle rules and regulations to determine that a driver has violated the DUI rules, and is likewise the essential criteria for determining that a CHL carrier is in violation... carrying while impaired. Is that incorrect?

This has been a point of contention for quite some time. There are many past posts on this topic, but let's look at the law:

Subch. H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:

(2) "Chemically dependent person" means a person who
frequently or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive indulgence
in alcohol or uses controlled substances or dangerous drugs so as to
acquire a fixed habit and an involuntary tendency to become intoxicated
or use those substances as often as the opportunity is
presented.
...
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01,
Penal Code.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(b)(6)(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the
license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is
concealed.

PC §46.035 does not directly define or reference a definition of "intoxicated." I imagine, realistically, most DAs will look to GC §411.171(6) for that, and subsequently PC §49.01.

You can read PC §49.01 here: http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... 049.00.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the relevant portion:

(2) "Intoxicated" means:

(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or

(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

Notice very closely the word "or."

Far too many people assume the .08 BAC is the deciding factor. Not so. Texas law says you are intoxicated if you do not have "the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of [a]...substance into the body."

I've heard of CHL instructors who admonished their classes that the statutes meant zero alcohol consumption, period. I've heard of other instructors who said .08 BAC was the official guideline. Both are wrong.

The guide is PC §49.01(2)(A). It ain't definitive, but it's what we got.

I'm not a lawyer, so Charles can--and should--come along and shoot me down on this one.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I'm pretty much in the minority here based on previous discussions, but I don't carry on body while on the bike. I've had enough wrecks on the bike, that I just don't want this mass of metal on/around my ribs and back when I have a get-off.

That said, it is stored within easy reach while standing near the bike, and it is stored in lockable hard luggage. It's not optimal, but it meets my risk assessment.

[y5e06]

Interesting points. One reason I decided to get my card was so I could carry on long bike rides. Unfortunately I do not have any hard locking bags. However, some bikes have the seats that pop off when unlocked with your key and may have a cavity under the seat where you could stow a smaller piece. I will be carrying a smaller 5-shot snub j-frame in appendix carry position with a lightweight holster. its almost perfect for riding on a bike. Its up in the 'soft' area on the body, not next to ribs or hip bones if I end up taking a tumble. very comfortable too and easy to get to. I haven't tried to fit it but I think it will slide in where my small tool pouch goes under the seat if I need to disarm for 30.06/51%. the tools can be thrown into the soft bags I have (if on at the time). I don't drink a drop when i'm out riding (or cc'ing), gotta stay sharp for those crazy cagers.

[RPBrown]

By November 4 I will be the proud owner of a Triumph Rocket III.



I'll probably be joining up with a few old buddies, but anyone I ride with is going to know I'm CHL and be aware that I won't go into a 51% or 30.06 posted establishment. Shouldn't be a problem since my brother is CHL and most of my buddies are either CHL, former, or current LEO.

I'm thinking in the rare event I do have to disarm I'll just find some cover to do it in, wrap it up in a towel or do-rag, and return to the bike to drop it in the saddlebag. People may think I'm sneaking off to smoke crack or something, but that's better than some crook seeing me stick a thousand dollar piece of hardware in my saddle bag and walking away.

But I would like to know what specific carry rigs might be on the market for motorcyclists, if anyone has any info to share.

I'm thinking my current shoulder rig for the 1911 would be pretty uncomfortable under a leather bike jacket...and not too crazy about the SmartCarry rig while sitting on a bike for two-hundred miles, either.

Maybe I should just duct tape it between my shoulder blades ala Bruce Willis in the first "Die Hard" movie!

There are a number of ways to carry. I have a leather vest that I wear a lot and it has an inside pocket that is made for concealed carry.

Being in Grapevine, Try a place in Irving called "It's a Leather Ministry". They are at 116 S. Jefferson in downtown Irving. They sell all your leather goods. this vest and a lot of other items for bikers.

[tfrazier]

Thanks, that's perfect for me, because I work in Las Colinas (Irving). I'll skip out of work early today and check them out.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I don't drink a drop when i'm out riding (or cc'ing), gotta stay sharp for those crazy cagers.

Exactly my thoughts on the drinking issue, but I also respect that others may not share those views. (not saying you were disrespecting them either, just sayin)

I generally do mostly long distance interstate trips on my bike as well, generally out west but I've also done my share of hitting old Civil War sites along the east coast too. While my first concern with carrying on the bike is what happens when I have a get off, the secondary concern is what happens when I ride into states where we don't have reciprocity. Thus keeping it close by but packed in luggage is ideal for me. Before I had bikes with hard lockable luggage, I'd keep the firearm in a tank bag or other soft luggage, but then would take the luggage in with me when I stopped for food/restroom or what not.

[tfrazier]

I haven't found any luggage, hard or soft, that mine will fit in, so I just roll like this