Noob Question re: DPS Site & Arrest Record

[seamusTX]

Jim, what about people who have had their records expunged?

He needs to talk to a lawyer.

When applying for a Texas CHL, you are required to list all arrests, regardless of whether charges were dropped, you were found not guilty, had the verdict reversed on appeal, pardoned, or had your record expunged. You can't pretend it didn't happen when you fill out the application.

Most of the time, when someone has their record expunged, they were found not guilty or charges were dropped. That is not a barrier to getting a CHL in Texas, though it can make the paperwork difficult.

Different states have different rules about this kind of thing. I have never heard of being found guilty and having the record expunged. Maybe he was pardoned. Sometimes people don't seem to know what their lawyers did.

- Jim

[Skater]

Thanks for the replies guys. I will forward this thread to my bud.

And seamusTX, to be quite honest, I don't think my friend quite understands what his lawyer did either! ;)

-Skater

[seamusTX]

And seamusTX, to be quite honest, I don't think my friend quite understands what his lawyer did either! ;)

They might as well speak Latin. We are blessed to have Charles Cotton, who calls a spade a spade -- most don't.

- Jim

[Longtooths]

Jim, what about people who have had their records expunged? The reason I ask is that I have a friend in Kansas (who is thinking of moving to Houston) had a Class D Felony conviction (might have been a Class E, I can't remember) because he shot at a guy trying to rape his daughter (go figure, he did not even hit the guy). The conviction was for "menacing" or something akin to that. This was about 10 years ago, and he has since had his record expunged legally. It was his only criminal conviction other than for parking, traffic, and vehicle laws. So technically, he has no record right? Would he be able to get a CHL if he moved to Houston like plans to this Fall?

I know there are quite a few lawyers and LEO on here, so please feel free to give your opinion.

As a side note, I have to commend the Admins and Mods of this forum. I have been lurking in these forums quite a bit, although this is only my 2nd or 3rd post, and I find it superbly moderated, well-behaved, free of nut jobs, full of great people, and VERY informative. My hat is off to you all.

-Skater

I am not sure about expunging. I could be wrong but Expunging a record only removes the record from the public eye. DPS can still see this offence. You might look into getting an Order of NonDisclosure which might allow you to get through the system.

[cactus371]

I have been in the process of getting my chl, yesterday I receive a denial letter because of a felony conviction in January 1997; however in 1997 it was a class A misdemeanor. Can I appeal this decision? Any help would be helpful.

Thanks
Rodney

[Rokyudai]

I have been in the process of getting my chl, yesterday I receive a denial letter because of a felony conviction in January 1997; however in 1997 it was a class A misdemeanor. Can I appeal this decision? Any help would be helpful.

Thanks
Rodney

Hey cactus,

Looking at GC411.180 part a: "the applicant or license holder may request a hearing on the denial, revocation, or suspension. The applicant must make a WRITTEN request for a hearing addressed to the department at its Austin address. The request must reach the department in Austin prior to the 30th day after the date of receipt of the written notice." It goes on to say that the department must promptly schedule a hearing (within 30 but no more than 60days) in the appropriate justice court in the county of residence of the applicant or license holder.

You would need to present some type of evidence such as your old arrest record. There would be a judge acting as an administrative hearing officer. Based on the evidence, he or she would make a ruling. If the denial is found "unsupported", they are to 'immediately issue or return the license' to the applicant or license holder.

If it is upheld, you can appeal the ruling by filing a petition which has to be done within 30 days after the initial ruling.

I GREATLY abbreviated what is found in Government Code 2005-2006 of Texas DPS...hope this helps.

[seamusTX]

I have been in the process of getting my chl, yesterday I receive a denial letter because of a felony conviction in January 1997; however in 1997 it was a class A misdemeanor. Can I appeal this decision?

This seems to be the relevant law:

GC §411.172. (b) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this state, another state, or the United States is:
(1) a felony if the offense, at the time of a person's application for a license to carry a concealed handgun:
(A) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;
(B) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law of this state as a felony; ...

As I understand this, even if the offense was not a felony in the time and place it occurred, it is considered a felony if the same act is currently a felony in Texas.

You need a lawyer ASAP if you want to appeal.

Good luck.

- Jim

[cactus371]

Is a lawyer going to be able to help me, or am I just wasteing more money? or should I wait and pray hb 2952 will become law and reapply. I do not see why it should be held against me if it was a class A misd. when it happened, regardless of what it is now.

Rodney

[txinvestigator]

Is a lawyer going to be able to help me, or am I just wasteing more money? or should I wait and pray hb 2952 will become law and reapply. I do not see why it should be held against me if it was a class A misd. when it happened, regardless of what it is now.

Rodney

If it was in Texas, and a Class A at the time of the conviction, then you should have a successful appeal, I would think.

BTW, don't answer if you don't want, but can you tell us the charge?

[txinvestigator]

Jim, what about people who have had their records expunged? The reason I ask is that I have a friend in Kansas (who is thinking of moving to Houston) had a Class D Felony conviction (might have been a Class E, I can't remember) because he shot at a guy trying to rape his daughter (go figure, he did not even hit the guy). The conviction was for "menacing" or something akin to that. This was about 10 years ago, and he has since had his record expunged legally. It was his only criminal conviction other than for parking, traffic, and vehicle laws. So technically, he has no record right? Would he be able to get a CHL if he moved to Houston like plans to this Fall?

I know there are quite a few lawyers and LEO on here, so please feel free to give your opinion.

As a side note, I have to commend the Admins and Mods of this forum. I have been lurking in these forums quite a bit, although this is only my 2nd or 3rd post, and I find it superbly moderated, well-behaved, free of nut jobs, full of great people, and VERY informative. My hat is off to you all.

-Skater

I am not sure about expunging. I could be wrong but Expunging a record only removes the record from the public eye. DPS can still see this offence. You might look into getting an Order of NonDisclosure which might allow you to get through the system.

An order of expunction orders no dissemination of the records.

Art. 55.03. EFFECT OF EXPUNCTION. When the order of
expunction is final:
(1) the release, maintenance, dissemination, or use of the
expunged records and files for any purpose is prohibited;
(2) except as provided in Subdivision (3) of this article,
the person arrested may deny the occurrence of the arrest and the
existence of the expunction order; and
(3) the person arrested or any other person, when questioned
under oath in a criminal proceeding about an arrest for which the
records have been expunged, may state only that the matter in
question has been expunged.

Art. 55.04. VIOLATION OF EXPUNCTION ORDER. Sec. 1. A person
who acquires knowledge of an arrest while an officer or employee of
the state or of any agency or other entity of the state or any
political subdivision of the state and who knows of an order
expunging the records and files relating to that arrest commits an
offense if he knowingly releases, disseminates, or otherwise uses
the records or files.
Sec. 2. A person who knowingly fails to return or to
obliterate identifying portions of a record or file ordered
expunged under this chapter commits an offense.
Sec. 3. An offense under this article is a Class B
misdemeanor.

[cactus371]

Will I need to find a lawyer or can I just go to the appeal and state my case. The charge was evading arreast using vehicle in Texas. I received 4 days in jail (which was time served) and a $250 fine, if that matters. All your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Rodney

[seamusTX]

Will I need to find a lawyer or can I just go to the appeal and state my case.

I can only tell you what I would do: I would never try to represent myself. If I did, the other lawyer would say something that was half in Latin and win the case.

- Jim

[Texican_gal]

Will I need to find a lawyer or can I just go to the appeal and state my case.

I can only tell you what I would do: I would never try to represent myself. If I did, the other lawyer would say something that was half in Latin and win the case.

- Jim

The bolded section happened to me in small claims court. I had lawyers I consulted telling me, "Yeah, you've got a great case, sounds like you are 100% right."

But they wouldn't go to court with me because the $$ wasn't enough. Heck I would have paid them half if they wanted it, just to win, since I was indeed right.

Please get a lawyer, cactus371. No matter how smart you are, or how RIGHT you are, you need to play the game how it is played.

[lawrnk]

You have two choices.

1. Submit without the info and one of two possibilities could occur
a. They delay your app asking for more info
b. They deny app and you have to go thru the appeal process
Either way, you have to go get the certified records.

2. Do the legwork up front and don't give them a reason to hold you up.

My CHL Instructor said, if I do the legwork up front so they don't have to, it makes it harder for them to balk.

You forgot 3. They don't check back that far on class C and issue anyways.

[OnTexasTime]

Will I need to find a lawyer or can I just go to the appeal and state my case. The charge was evading arreast using vehicle in Texas. I received 4 days in jail (which was time served) and a $250 fine, if that matters. All your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Rodney

I am coming to the discussion late, but if I was going to go to court on this I would take a lawyer. The one thing I see that works for you or against you is that the hearing is held in the Justice Court in your home County. I would rather go up against the state at home where I am known.

I assume your arguement is going to be you were young and dumb and running from a speeding ticket, something you would not do with the maturity you have now. If you were running for some other reason that might work against you. A lawyer can help you keep extra information from becoming part of the hearing.

Keep in mind there was a local background done on you by a trooper in your county. He may well be there as a witiness. Hopefully he was not the one you ran from.