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Would there be somewhere to get just what the factory load is? For example for Winchster White Box 9mm Luger 115 grain fmj ammo which powder and what charge do they use (I assume they use winchester bullits, cases and small pistol primers)

The factory sure isn't going to tell you about powders and specific data.

And in some cases, they use powders that aren't available to the reloader, anyway.

The bullets are easy enough to figure out, as Winchester and others sell bullets and brass.

You should be able to safely work up loads that duplicate factory using available powders and bullets.

Otherwise, not sure where you're going with this.

Don't have a chrono and my son wants a load to duplicate wwb

I could meet you at the range and provide the chrono.

Where do you shoot?

BTW, my first (and still best) chrono is an Oehler 35P. But I bought one of the inexpensive Chrony's ($70-80) and it's so close to the Oehler that I use it almost exclusively.

I wanted to do the same thing except I wanted to duplicate (power-wise) the standard "GI" 230-grain FMJ ball .45ACP loading (approx. 830 fps). Of course, I had to buy a chronograph...in my case it was a fairly inexpensive Shooting Chrony Alpha Master Chronograph (from http://www.midwayusa.com).

Yes, you'll definitely need a chronograph to help try to get a factory loading, at least duplicate the FPS anyway.

As for the chamber-pressure for that loading, that's just a guess...unless you are real serious about it and get strain gauges. I don't.

-- John D.

Winchester's loading manual often makes reference to what the "factory" powder is - for example, 296 is touted as the "factory" powder in .357 Mag ammo. WWB in 9mm? Your guess is as good as mine, but FWIW it clocks a little over 1200 ft/sec out of my G17.

But . . . the powder the factory uses is probably not identical in burning rate to the cannister type powder you buy. Close . . . but not exact. The ballisticians at commercial concerns will take samples from each lot of powder and adjust the charge up or down in order to meet pressure and velocity specs. Cannister powders are deliberately held to a more consistent standard, cannister lot to cannister lot, as few reloaders have even a chronograph, let alone a pressure gun.

For example, the GI Ball load was originally supposed to be a 230 FMJ with 4.6 grains of Bullseye #2 . . . we have Bullseye today, but how many of us have encountered numbered Bullseye powders?

Barnes' Cartridges of the World lists the powder charges used in some USGI military ammo . . . some of the numbers are familiar, but others are "non-cannister" powders which do not necessarily have an exact commercial match.

For many years I was the factory rep for Aguila ammo made in Mexico and I visited the plant in Cuernavaca many times. They ordered powder to the specs they wanted and then loaded the ammo. Their ammo quality was excellent and consistent.

Rarely did they use anything like canister powders.

Before my stint as the rep for Aguila, I owned a company that re-manufactured ammo. I used many powders that most people will never see, like H-335 overscreen, HP-38 special, Ball-C#5, 5025, Bullseye #2 and #6 and a lot more. I can still buy non-canister powder (and so can you) from various suppliers. H-108 and H-116 are two examples that I use a lot. Usually you are on your own to develop safe loads, but often the supplier can get you started.

Using non-canister powders is interesting, but, potentially dangerous unless you are very experienced and have the tools to do it right.

There is no factory load that I know of in any caliber that you cannot duplicate with canister powders... use the various reloading manuals and they will get you right where you want to be and safely.

I am loading Montana Gold 115 grain TMJ rounds over Win 231 using CCI primers and a charge weight of 4.8 +- .05 grains "feels" the best to my son. This is right at the Never Exceed charge listed by Lee but I have found NO signs of overpressure in any of the cases after firing.

Mike. I shoot the Monthly IDPA matches at Thunder and PSC and Wensday Night fun matches at Thunder. However I live in Highlands about 5 miles from the Bayarea Range so maybe we can get together sometime on a weekend to chrono both the 9mms and my pet 45acp load to make sure it meets power factor. I think there may be other members here who shoot there as well.


woops edited to change name of shooting range in Crosby

I belong to PSC and Bay Area, near Crosby.

I live in Baytown, so it shouldn't be difficult to get together.

pistolchamp wrote: There is no factory load that I know of in any caliber that you cannot duplicate with canister powders... use the various reloading manuals and they will get you right where you want to be and safely.

So far, I haven't found any published loads that will duplicate published ballistics of Hornady's "Light Magnum" 180 grain .30/06 or their "Heavy Magnum" 300 grain .375 H&H.

I also haven't found published loads that will duplicate Cor-Bon's claimed ballistics in 9mm P. (115 JHP @ 1350)

My "standard" loads for the '06 use RL22. (BTW, the top velocities in the Nosler manual are wildly optimistic when fired in regular guns.) I use Winchester's 760 for the .375 . . . basically, these loads in my rifles - and those of friends - essentially duplicate what the factory claims (but seldom delivers!) from their "standard" loadings in regular production guns.

I'm too timid to work into the safety margin of any of my guns for what is really a modest increase in velocity (percentage wise, at least) but I'm always willing to learn.

Any specific suggestions on duplicating "Light Magnum" or "High Energy" factory loads?

HankB wrote:

pistolchamp wrote:

I also haven't found published loads that will duplicate Cor-Bon's claimed ballistics in 9mm P. (115 JHP @ 1350)

Any specific suggestions on duplicating "Light Magnum" or "High Energy" factory loads?

Well as for the Corbon 115 +p's I can tell you how to get very close to duplicating it. However it's very tough to be specific 'cause I really don't want to be named as the cause of you blowing yourself or your gun up.

However theoretically if you were to take some Power Pistol powder, start at the upper end of the load spectrum, the use a chrony, work the loads upward until you get very close or see extreme pressure signs on the casings.

You can get very close with AA #5 and magnum primers in a 9mm case as well.

HOWEVER the Chrony and the working up about .2 gr at a time are a must if you want to try it.

At the same time you can get some healthy speeds with Power Pistol just at the upper end of the suggested loads anyway.

Honestly though, other than loading up some ammo to store for a Katrina type event, why? I carry Corbon 115 +p's daily, but certain don't want to go to the range and fire 1000 rounds at that pressure. It's an extremely hot round that does stress your pistol.