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I tried some W231, 6gr., behind a 255-260gr cast buller in a 45 AR. Felt good and right on. However, concerned about the primers. The primer caved in around the firing pin dimple but didn't puncture. Little too hot?

I fiddle with reloading and will be interested in the learned response to this question.

Load data for the 45AR is the same as 45acp. Hodgdon lists a maximum of 5.3 gr W231 for the 230 gr bullet in 45acp. They do not publish any data for a 255 / 260 bullet in either acp or AR. If you are loading 6.0 in a 260 gr bullet then you would be way past "a little too hot". The primers are sending you a message.

I saw two 45acp kb's within minutes of each other a few weeks ago at ASC. Same load in both 1911's, W231 with 260 gr bullet. Personally I would not use anything over 230 gr in the 45acp or AR.

pistoleer44 wrote:I tried some W231, 6gr., behind a 255-260gr cast bullet in a 45 AR. Felt good and right on. However, concerned about the primers. The primer caved in around the firing pin dimple but didn't puncture. Little too hot?

Is it a 45 Colt ? If it is ACP I would stay below 230 Gr. as that is about the max for a 45 ACP.
Don't confuse 45 ACP with 45 Colt, you will have bad results. Sounds like you got away lucky with only some primer flow issues. The MAX load for a 230 Gr. LRN is only 5.3 Grains, you need to recheck the data before you get hurt.

From Hodgdon/Winchester website:

Cartridge: 45 ACP
Load Type: Pistol

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

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155 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .451" 1.230" 6.0 998 13,400 CUP 6.7 1112 17,100 CUP
180 GR. LFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.140" 5.0 778 11,300 CUP 6.0 950 16,800 CUP
185 GR. HDY JSWC Winchester 231 .451" 1.195" 5.0 762 12,000 CUP 5.9 906 15,800 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. SPR JHP Winchester 231 .451" 1.155" 5.2 794 12,700 CUP 5.9 906 16,700 CUP
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Winchester 231 .451" 1.200" 4.2 751 13,800 CUP 5.3 832 16,800 CUP
230 GR. LRN Winchester 231 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP





Cartridge: 45 Colt
Load Type: Pistol
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

160 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.500" 6.5 917 7,700 CUP 9.0 1177 13,800 CUP
180 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.540" 6.0 838 6,500 CUP 8.2 1087 13,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.600" 5.9 761 5,800 CUP 8.0 1002 13,800 CUP
200 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .452" 1.600" 7.8 956 11,000 CUP 8.7 1048 14,000 CUP
215 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.650" 5.9 758 5,900 CUP 7.8 965 13,500 CUP
230 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.580" 5.8 738 7,300 CUP 7.3 941 13,700 CUP
250 GR. CAST LRNFP Winchester 231 .452" 1.600" 5.8 785 9,100 CUP 7.1 916 13,900 CUP
250 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .452" 1.595" 6.5 692 10,500 CUP 7.3 797 14,000 CUP
260 GR. SPR JHP Winchester 231 .451" 1.595" 6.5 722 12,000 CUP 7.1 787 14,000 CUP

45 AR is 45 Auto Rim........It is the 45acp with a rimmed case so you can shoot it in revolvers without using moon clips. I do not believe anyone is currently producing factory ammo, but you can still buy new 45AR revolvers and Starline still produces brass in this caliber. It is a fun caliber to shoot and very accurate.

This caliber has an interesting story behind it, too long for me to type. Google it and you will probably find several articles about it.

But is the load data for the AR the same as ACP ?

If so, then this guy is loading WAY over max. I've used Win231 for many years and have never loaded any caliber/bullet combination to 6 grains.

Yes, the same load data is used for both 45acp and 45AR. I agree, the 6.0 W231 with a 255 in 45AR or 45acp is way past any published data I have ever seen.

Way past anything I know too. In .45 acp I shoot 231 over a 230 gr LRN or JHP. 6.1 gr of the 231 is about .2 from absolute max as far as I am concerned.

W/ that 255 I think that is way more pressure than ought to be.
My .02cents & some think it worth about half that.

I've seen this combo before as a woods defense load in a modern S&W 625, but you're definitely in +p territory and your primers are informing you of this. If you're using a modern Smith 625, you can probably use this load sparingly, but the gas cutting on the top strap and forcing cone would have to take their toll eventually. Personally, Speer lists some 250gr LWC loads similar to this for the 45AR.

for 45 ACP My Hornady 7th Edition reloading manual says MAX on the 230gr (Jacketed HP) is 5.7 grains. I am loading about 5.6 grains right now... For 230gr LRN bullets I am seeing a max of 6.2grains... For the 45 Auto RIM I dont see anything other than 185 grain bullets listed, and no win231; but the loads as compared to 185grain in the 45 ACP are significantly less. (bullseye etc.) I am also going to assume you are seeing a warning of overpressure. I wouldn't shoot anymore of them. What data are you using?

Also I would love it if you'd post a picture to show everyone some overpressure

jhutto wrote:for 45 ACP My Hornady 7th Edition reloading manual says MAX on the 230gr (Jacketed HP) is 5.7 grains. I am loading about 5.6 grains right now...

I'm using almost this same load (and have been for many years) with the exception that 5.6 gr. of 231 works for me.

I have dropped my powder charge to 5.5 of W231 ands am much happier.