click, no bang

[O6nop]

This may not sound like it's in the right place, but I'm pretty sure it's a reloading issue... maybe someone can help.

I had three experiences with rounds in my AR-15 .223. These are reloads using LC brass and 55gr FMJ (non-specific manufacturer). I used Winchester small rifle primers.
I was shooting along, BANG, BANG, CLICK... It was stuck in there, I couldn't eject it, couldn't pull back on the bolt, couldn't put it in safety.. What I had to do was separate the upper and lower completely, cock the hammer, put it on safe, put it back together and fire it, they fired OK the second time. I'm not sure if that was the safest way to do it, so I'd like some advice on what I should have done and how it may have happened in the first place.

Aside from that, I shot over 200 rounds of my reloads using different loads and bullet weights. Trying to find my perfect load. Everything else fired OK.

[stevie_d_64]

So the one that went "CLICK" finally went "BANG" after you broke the upper and lower apart and cycled the safety???

hmmmmm...

DPMS, Olympic, RRA??? Colt??? Bushmaster???

Did the pin hit the primer when you looked at it after the first "CLICK"?

Just trying to get a fuller picture here...

Glad it doesn't look like a squib so far...

[TX Rancher]

If you couldn’t pull the bolt to the rear (basically no eject of the round), it sounds like you may not have sized that round properly, or your sizing die is out of spec. I’m assuming you do full length sizing…If not, I would suggest you start.

This is a rather odd failure to fire issue. Usually, the problem with failure to extract comes after the round goes boom.

I have seen cases where very dirty chambers can cause the problem, but in those cases the problem was more prevalent then yours seems to be…and again it was after the round went boom.

Stevie’s question about signs of siring pin impact on the primer is a good one…any chance you had looked?

[O6nop]

So the one that went "CLICK" finally went "BANG" after you broke the upper and lower apart and cycled the safety???

hmmmmm...

DPMS, Olympic, RRA??? Colt??? Bushmaster???

Did the pin hit the primer when you looked at it after the first "CLICK"?

Just trying to get a fuller picture here...

Glad it doesn't look like a squib so far...

It's hard to be clear when I am not sure about what's going on, but I'll try...

It's an RRA upper, the lower I put together myself from a kit.
I don't know if the pin hit the primer on the 'click' The bolt carrier was stuck forward, couldn't see the cartridge. After the BANG I checked it and it looked normal. Maybe a little burr on the mouth, the part that gets crimped.
I guess it could be a sizing problem, I'm fairly new at it so I may have done a poor job on those three.

I only mentioned that I cycled the safety because it wouldn't do it after the 'click'. I had to manually cock the hammer while it was separated.

Just trying to figure out why it wouldn't go "BANG' the first time, but it would after. Bad primer? primer seating? cartridge seating-in too far? I will try to be extremely careful doing sizing.

[Houston1944]

I have fired unknown thousands of my reloads and have experienced only one (1) situation where a bad primer failed to fire. The odds of you having 3 out of 200 seem very remote to me.
I do not know much about "AR's" but the fact that you cannot eject the round sounds strange to me. I would really like to know if there was a dent in the primer after going "click". All this sounds like a mechanical issue to me but since I am "AR" ignorant I cannot offer any suggestions for mechanical situations.

[stroo]

I used to use a ram prime on my press and inserted the primer into the ram by hand. I found with those that about one out of every 50 would click the first time and every once in while it wouldn't go bang at all. I have now change to priming with a tool and don't get the clicks. I assume the oil off my hand was getting in the primers and causing issues, but that is just a guess on my part. How do you handle the primers?

[O6nop]

How do you handle the primers?

By hand, but not touched. These were loaded with a lee autoprimer, I lay them into the autoprimer by holding it upside down on the open box of primers and turn it upside-down with the box. They fall onto the autoprimer tray shiny side down. Usually about 20 at a time. Then I put the cover on and start priming.

I do not know much about "AR's" but the fact that you cannot eject the round sounds strange to me.

Yes, me too. maybe the case is still too expanded? i.e not sized properly. Still not sure why it didn't fire first time. BTW, it ejected fine after firing.

[O6nop]

Some of your questions gave me an idea, I kind of remember the position of the carrier in this situation but it didn't come to mind 'til now.
I looked my rifle all over just now, and I think the carrier was not all the way forward during those times. So, the bolt didn't fully rotate into the chamber. That would cause the firing pin to be back too far, just enough to not make contact with the primer. It does all this because it didn't chamber completely because it was a little too big to seat all the way in, which is why it wouldn't pull out... jammed. Everything was froze up because the bolt wasn't all the way forward.

If this is true, still can't figure out why the second time it would fire. Maybe it made just enough contact the second time for it to fire.

Sound about right?

[Thane]

It sounds to me as though your rounds are a little overlength. Rifle rounds normally headspace on the shoulder. If the body of the round stretches too far, that shoulder gets pushed forward enough to cause difficulty chambering, especially in semi-autos. Full-length resizing pushes the shoulder back to its "normal" spot (and also stretches the neck somewhat, but that's probably not an issue here).

It sounds to me as though you haven't fully resized some rounds, and the overlength cartridge is causing the bolt to fail to fully close. The "click" syndrome is caused by the hammer striking the firing pin and "punching" the bolt the last little way closed. The primer is not set off because most of the force of the hammer is transferred into closing the bolt.

I would also bet that your 3 rounds of 200 were NOT the only "problem" rounds; they were just the ones that were worst. Your bolt was probably "hesitating" on other rounds in that batch.

I would check two things. First, be sure you're fully resizing ALL brass for your AR; case-neck-only sizing is great for bolt actions, but causes problems in semi-autos and lever-guns.
Second, I'd check your bolt headspace, especially if these problems are cropping up after only or two firings per case. Excessive headspace (essentially, the distance between the bolt-face and the chamber) can allow a cartridge to stretch too much, making chambering that much harder on a neck-sized-only round. While it's unlikely that Rock River gave you a bolt/upper combination with bad headspace, it's certainly possible. Headspace gauges are available at many gunshops, Cabelas, Sportsman's Warehouse, and MidwayUSA.

[Houston1944]

If it is not going into full battery then this certainly would cause light primer strikes resulting in a click instead of a bang. Assuming you are not using a neck only die then I would check the die set up. The shell holder should bottom out on the resizing die. If the die is set up correctly and you continue to have this problem then I would try to borrow a die from someone that does not have this issue and resize a few with it. You could have either an undersize die or a tolerance stack up issue with two mating parts being on the opposite end of the allowable tolerance.

[O6nop]

I will try carefully resizing and trimming about 100 cases, load them similar to the ones that had issues and check it out at the range again. Sounds like this may be the cure.

I will look into getting some headspace gauges if there are further problems. Do you suggest GO, NO-GO, and FIELD gauges? MidwayUSA looks like they have Forster gauges at a good price.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[Thane]

Honestly, on the headspace gauge, I'm not sure precisely which one you might need. I'd presume that a GO/NO-GO would probably work. I've not had this problem myself, only read about it, so I'm not as well versed in the solution as I could (should?) be.

Trawl around the net on a search for "excessive headspace" and you'll probably find the info you need.

And it could simply be a problem with your brass, not your headspace (hopefully, this is the case). The 100 rounds trimmed to minimum specs is a very good starting point; shoot them, then reload as you normally would. If the problem recurs at this point, I'd start looking more seriously at headspacing.

A third solution that, quite honestly, didn't occur to me last night is dirt. If you've been shooting rather dirty loads, it's possible you've got dirt buildup in your bolt channel, specifically around the bolt lugs and the bolt lug recesses in the action. This buildup could also be causing your bolt to "hang up" on the cycle. While I've never personally had a jam along these lines, I've heard of similar malfunctions being caused by such.

[Tom]

I will try carefully resizing and trimming about 100 cases, load them similar to the ones that had issues and check it out at the range again. Sounds like this may be the cure.

I will look into getting some headspace gauges if there are further problems. Do you suggest GO, NO-GO, and FIELD gauges? MidwayUSA looks like they have Forster gauges at a good price.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

06nop,

Unless you are mounting barrels you won't need a GO gauge.
I use only the FIELD gauges on my old military rifles as it tells me everything I need to know.
On my AR's I use only the NO-GO gauge. Once the bolt closes on it, many thousands of rounds
from now, I will probably be looking to replace the barrel for other reasons anyway.

You have received a good amount of advice from the folks here. Any and all of it is worth consideration.
Check your PM's for a little bit more.

Kind Regards,

Tom

[dukalmighty]

It sounds more like the bolt was not fully closed and when the hammer struck the firing pin the firing pin would not strike the primer,sounds like case length or resizing issue as long as the chamber wasn't cruddy.just my 2 cents as i have had that same thing happen

[ShootingStar]

I use the Dillon case guage for .223 and have had no problems yet. Buy a guage and test all of your loaded rounds as what you had to do to get the rounds to fire was not too safe. Not that you had any other choice, but it's really worth the money and not too expensive. Less than $20.

Also, though I have not experienced this myself, I have heard the firing Wolf ammo rather fast can cause the chamber to heat up and make the laquer coating melt in the chamber. Some claim they have had problems with this while other say they have not. Just something to think about.

-ss