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So it is known both my husband and I are somewhat novices at guns. We have taken a few classes, and have gone to the range as many times as we could--he has gone more than me, since I am expecting.

So we have been trying to find a holster for my since I am carrying pregnant and have been having a hard time doing that. (see belly band fail). We were testing out different holster and different options. I leave the room to get my toddler a drink. My husband was transferring the holster my wallet and other items to a larger computer bag to see if it would work better for me. I come back in and he says "your all loaded up." I think he means he has transferred the contents of my purse to the bag and has put the unloaded gun back into my bag to try this draw out. The gun has been unloaded all night long with an empty cartridge and it was going in and out of new holsters--I think I have already saftey checked the thing four or five times.

He then says me a person is behind you and "tells you to go with him draw!" Trying to see if I could draw effectively from this bag--I draw and turn around gun outstretched at the wall (but still close for comfort) beside my husband and he says loudly "it is loaded!" WHAT!!!!! What if I had tripped! So needless to say he is sleeping in bed and here I am shaking like mad out of fear of what might have been. I am so furious with myself for not checking again that the gun was unloaded--again. Angry at him that he knew the gun was loaded and said such a thing--what did he think I was going to do? We had been practicing all night long to try and see what would work so I could draw effectively. He is irritated with me (probably quite rightly considering he thought I understood the gun was loaded). And mostly I am here shaking like mad.

Moral of the story---First and foremost! Never Never Never use a real gun even if you think you have saftey checked the thing 5 times over in any sort of even spur of the moment simulation. If you think for 2 seconds that you might want to do a simulation--get the 6 year old's plastic revolver from downstairs! Second--if you leave the room for any reason or the gun is out of your sight at all and someone even a person you trust 100% hands you a purse with a gun in it--even if you are 150% sure it is unloaded check it! Third if you are handing your beloved a bag with a gun in it and you have loaded it when she was out of the room, please say the words "The weapon in your bag is now loaded and has a bullet chambered." Finally if you hand a person a bag with a loaded gun in it do not ask them to practice a draw--they may not have heard/understood that the weapon is loaded! There can be no room for error with weapons. Terrifying to say the least--if I sleep at all tonight it will be a miracle.

mamabearCali wrote: Never Never Never use a real gun even if you think you have saftey checked the thing 5 times over

True and false.... you can use a real gun, but you need to do it in a safe and controlled manner and a location designed for it.
Go to a range where you can draw from concealment and practice "real world exercises" - like PSC Range, or others depending on location

mamabearCali wrote: and he says loudly "it is loaded!"

remember - a gun is ALWAYS LOADED - even when it isn't
That's why it is one of the 4-rules of gun safety.

When I take a new person to the range, we spend 1/2 hour or more on safety first. Yes, I am that anal that I just want to be sure it is drilled in them.
I will then take an unloaded weapon, and prove to them, again, and me, again, that is unloaded, and hand it to them, to see how well they understood and practice the 4 rules.
If they treat it as if it is unloaded, without first checking, they fail and we talk about the 4 rules again.

mamabearCali wrote:for not checking again that the gun was unloaded--again.

- see previous paragraph

...happy that all turned out well...and that you both learned a good lesson cheaply...I never take a gun from anyone unless I open the action as I touch it...and I even check my carry as I pick it up at the house...just in case one of my sons looked at it and left the barrel empty...I learned the hard way about being sure...as a young rookie, my training officer wanted to trade me a Model 39 for my snub .357...which I was carrying at work...we were at a coffeeshop out on a gravel parking lot...sippin' and lookin' at each other's guns...I reloaded and put it back in the holster...with him looking straight at me...he said "let me see that one more time"...I eased it out and lay it in his hand...and he put it beside his leg and squeezed the trigger as I screamed 'J...it's loaded!!!" The bullet creased his knee, missed his foot, and went through the floorboard of the squad...we were deaf for 3 nights...it's a great part of my hearing loss...a full-house magnum round...but he could have been crippled...and he KNEW it was loaded...
...there's times to practice with a real gun for feel and balance and such...but it's good to check it every time you touch it...and show it to anyone else there...another rule is never hand someone a gun with the action closed...even if you just checked it...you can goof...check it...hand it over...insist that THEY check it, and still follow the rules, especially #1...

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling are:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.


3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

I don't post this to be insulting, and you are probably already well aware of these rules. It's just that we all need a reminder once in a while—even those of us who are experienced and familiar with firearms, and firearms safety.

I understand what led your husband to do this. I help my wife with her guns too. But, the one thing I do is stay out of her purse. Who knows what dark mysteries lurk therein, and I have a healthy fear of it.

But, I do clean her guns for her after range trips, and I do reload two of them for her when the cleaning is finished. However, I hand the unloaded purse gun (a S&W 642 revolver) and its cartridges back to her and she loads the gun and puts it in her purse. Her other guns consist of a bedstand Glock 19, a Kahr CW9 which is about to enter her carry rotation as soon as she practices some more with it, and an AR15. I always put the Kahr back into its Mitch Rosen holster, and I set the Glock on her bedstand. I specifically tell her that the pistols are loaded as soon as I put them in their assigned places, and her AR15 carbine is stored unloaded in the safe.

Now, but now you must have figured out that we don't keep all of our guns unloaded......but there is a method to our madness. The guns in the safe are unloaded, because we are not using them. The guns on the bedstands and elsewhere are loaded, because they are prepared for use—whether "use" means for carry, or for defense of the home. We assume them to be loaded, and handle them accordingly.

We are empty-nesters and have the advantage of no children running around the house.

Sorry that happened to you, but it was your fault. Assuming a gun was unloaded has gotten many people killed. You know this and just forgot one of the most basic rules of gun safety.

Someone else handled your gun since you last did. You have absolutely no idea what it's actual condition is. Heck, I check mine every time I put it on even if I have no reason to believe my wife has handled it. Maybe she has or maybe I did something odd like unloading it. I don't want to need it and hear it go "click."

I bet you don't forget it again.

There is no such thing as an unloaded gun, .......... I'm convinced of it.

Years ago I decided I'd always load every gun in my house, then I'd be sure and certain... there is no such thing as an unloaded gun.

RPB wrote:Years ago I decided I'd always load every gun in my house, then I'd be sure and certain... there is no such thing as an unloaded gun.

That reminds me of an Elmer Keith quote from Sixguns:

• I am scared of empty guns and keep mine loaded at all times. The family knows the guns are loaded and treats them with respect. Loaded guns cause few accidents; "empty guns" kill people every year.

The "It's OK - it isn't loaded - BANG!" phenomenon is common when a shooter who is accustomed to working only on a square range that has shooters lined up and firing in one direction visits an informal range where shooters are moving among different firing positions. It is also common when folks are showing guns, demonstrating holster fit, or performing similar maneuvers. Such folks are not habitually aware of muzzle discipline and will often sweep everyone on the range or in the gun shop as they handle the gun, turn or perform other maneuvers.

When challenged, the usual response is - "It's OK - it's unloaded."

No, violating any one of the 4 rules is absolutely not OK, whether they think the gun is unloaded or not.

It usually takes a violation of at least 2 of the 4 rules to have a disaster, and at that point they are only one more mistake away from a tragedy. That one mistake is easy to come by, and that's how disasters come about.

I have no sense of humor about poor muzzle discipline, and am very direct if I see it. If the situation is not immediately addressed, I will leave the shooting area, gun counter, or wherever, rather than risk becoming involved in the failure sequence I can see developing.

Apostate's quote from Elmer Keith is well worth keeping in mind.

I just wanted to say that for those carrying in purses, bags, or backpacks, I hope they are using an appropriate holster. With all of the loose objects within a bag, safeties and triggers can be moved.

So needless to say he is sleeping in bed and here I am shaking like mad out of fear of what might have been.

After reading your story and the first part of the quoted sentence I thought that sentence would finish a little different. Something like..

"So needless to say he is sleeping on the sofa for the foreseeable future and here I am shaking like mad out of fear of what might have been."

Glad things turn out OK.

Thanks yall for all the support. We know the rules (knew them before and just royally messed up) and have had a few discussions now. It is like they said in Oceans 11--"you lose focus in this game for 1 second and somebody gets hurt (killed)" I did eventually get about 3 hours of sleep. It was several joint screw ups, and a few individual ones that scared the living daylights out of my husband and I--my nerves are still a bit shot. Needless to say "won't do that no more."

...thanks for relating it to us...now maybe WE won't either!!!

apostate wrote:

RPB wrote:Years ago I decided I'd always load every gun in my house, then I'd be sure and certain... there is no such thing as an unloaded gun.

That reminds me of an Elmer Keith quote from Sixguns:

• I am scared of empty guns and keep mine loaded at all times. The family knows the guns are loaded and treats them with respect. Loaded guns cause few accidents; "empty guns" kill people every year.

I drive my wife nuts with my habit. Whenever we have to go in some place that I cannot carry, I lock the weapon away. The first thing I do when I return to the vehicle is check the action to insure it is loaded. It's just a good habit to have. A friend of mine has a little sign in his gun room that says, "If you touch it, Check it!" I will clean my wifes weapons, but I absolutely refuse to load them for her. I won't allow her to load mine either. I guess that makes me......something or other....LOL Be happy about one thing though. You got an extremely valuable and emphatic lesson with nobody getting hurt. That's as good as it gets!

bilgerat57 wrote:I drive my wife nuts with my habit. Whenever we have to go in some place that I cannot carry, I lock the weapon away. The first thing I do when I return to the vehicle is check the action to insure it is loaded. It's just a good habit to have. A friend of mine has a little sign in his gun room that says, "If you touch it, Check it!" I will clean my wifes weapons, but I absolutely refuse to load them for her. I won't allow her to load mine either. I guess that makes me......something or other....LOL Be happy about one thing though. You got an extremely valuable and emphatic lesson with nobody getting hurt. That's as good as it gets!

...SURE that noone's gonna mess up...glad to see you so careful...I often pick up a gun 'round here and press check it if it's been lying there long at all...somebody (who KNOWS better) could have messed with it...they don't lock doors, leave the milk out, don't put the stapler back...why wouldn't they mess with our gun??? We check it...then we're sure...click when you're expecting a BANG is a horrible sound...